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In reply to the discussion: Please stop assuming if you don't see the Democrats strategizing and whipping, it's not happening [View all]StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)196. Since you're citing Professor Gerhardt as your unassailable source, you may want to read what else
he has to say about impeachment in general and Speaker Pelosi's approach to it, in particular. You may find it illuminating.
Considering impeachment? Slow down.
By Michael Gerhardt
Washington Post, May 18, 2017
...
Impeachment cannot and should not be done hastily, nor should it be done for reasons so flimsy they suggest politicians are merely jockeying for political advantage rather than protecting constitutional values.
The more that impeachment proceedings appear to be rushing to judgment or driven by partisanship, the less credibility they ultimately have. The Clinton and Nixon examples offer crucial lessons about the importance of slowing down and ensuring that the public is confident that the gravity of the alleged conduct warrants the extraordinary and fundamentally undemocratic remedy of Congress removing the president from office
...
The Clinton episode offers a cautionary tale ... {T}he failure of the House to undertake its own fact-finding, and its reliance instead solely on Starrs findings, made it easier for Clinton and his defenders to attack the impeachment as both a rush to judgment and not being properly grounded in misconduct involving the presidents abuse of official powers. The Senate quickly disposed of the matter when it was obvious it lacked the votes to meet the two-thirds threshold for a conviction.
The more deliberate the inquiry, the better chance that the American people will have confidence in it. For Nixon, the process that led to his resignation took more than two years, and the scope of wrongdoing that those investigations revealed was breathtaking. The House Judiciary Committee and a Senate select committee undertook meticulous fact-finding, which ultimately uncovered the evidence that Nixon had taped every conversation in the White House.
...
Impeachment is serious business, perhaps the most serious other than going to war that Congress ever contemplates. Any impeachment inquiry must be conducted thoroughly and preferably with bipartisan support. Those eager to get started must remember: If not done properly the first time, there might not be another chance.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/considering-impeachment-slow-down/2017/05/18/5bb60dfc-3bfb-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html?utm_term=.9cf5b1aba295
By Michael Gerhardt
Washington Post, May 18, 2017
...
Impeachment cannot and should not be done hastily, nor should it be done for reasons so flimsy they suggest politicians are merely jockeying for political advantage rather than protecting constitutional values.
The more that impeachment proceedings appear to be rushing to judgment or driven by partisanship, the less credibility they ultimately have. The Clinton and Nixon examples offer crucial lessons about the importance of slowing down and ensuring that the public is confident that the gravity of the alleged conduct warrants the extraordinary and fundamentally undemocratic remedy of Congress removing the president from office
...
The Clinton episode offers a cautionary tale ... {T}he failure of the House to undertake its own fact-finding, and its reliance instead solely on Starrs findings, made it easier for Clinton and his defenders to attack the impeachment as both a rush to judgment and not being properly grounded in misconduct involving the presidents abuse of official powers. The Senate quickly disposed of the matter when it was obvious it lacked the votes to meet the two-thirds threshold for a conviction.
The more deliberate the inquiry, the better chance that the American people will have confidence in it. For Nixon, the process that led to his resignation took more than two years, and the scope of wrongdoing that those investigations revealed was breathtaking. The House Judiciary Committee and a Senate select committee undertook meticulous fact-finding, which ultimately uncovered the evidence that Nixon had taped every conversation in the White House.
...
Impeachment is serious business, perhaps the most serious other than going to war that Congress ever contemplates. Any impeachment inquiry must be conducted thoroughly and preferably with bipartisan support. Those eager to get started must remember: If not done properly the first time, there might not be another chance.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/considering-impeachment-slow-down/2017/05/18/5bb60dfc-3bfb-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html?utm_term=.9cf5b1aba295
A Constitutional Scholar on the Purpose of Impeachment
New Yorker, May 10, 2019
What have you made of the way that the House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, has been talking about impeachment, essentially saying that we have an election coming up in a little more than a year, and this can be settled at the ballot box?
{Professor Gerhardt:} Impeachment is a political proceeding, and the framers vested this power in political authority, and therefore its consistent with the design of the process for political leaders to make political calculations on whether or not to impeach. The second related thing is that the fact that the House has the power to impeach doesnt necessarily mean it will impeach or it should impeach. It has the discretion not to bring an impeachment, for whatever reason it comes up with. So all that could make sense.
Speaker Pelosis also said that, short of an impeachment process, Congress is entitled to investigate and even to lay a foundation through its investigation to later bring an impeachment. Congress is fully entitled, whichever party controls it, to investigate the person in the White House, for abuses of power, lying, or breaking laws.
...
You said earlier that this is a political process. Because its a political process, does it bother you less when Pelosi kind of says that it would be better for Democrats not to impeach Trump? Or do you mean something different by political?
The political process clearly involves all the political leaders and members of Congress, and they will make calculations on the basis of politics as well as the Constitution. Thats part of what we get from the design of the impeachment process. Im not critical of Speaker Pelosi when she says what you said. Shes also said, Look, the President has lied and some investigations are needed, and thats a perfectly appropriate judgment.
The mix of political and constitutional is really a hard one to figure out sometimes. And the political judgment may in a sense outweigh the constitutional judgment or vice-versa, and the reason it might work out differently at different times is the political makeup of Congress. For example, if Democrats had control of the House and the Senate when Clinton was President, my guess is there would have been no impeachment.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/a-constitutional-scholar-on-the-purpose-of-impeachment
New Yorker, May 10, 2019
What have you made of the way that the House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, has been talking about impeachment, essentially saying that we have an election coming up in a little more than a year, and this can be settled at the ballot box?
{Professor Gerhardt:} Impeachment is a political proceeding, and the framers vested this power in political authority, and therefore its consistent with the design of the process for political leaders to make political calculations on whether or not to impeach. The second related thing is that the fact that the House has the power to impeach doesnt necessarily mean it will impeach or it should impeach. It has the discretion not to bring an impeachment, for whatever reason it comes up with. So all that could make sense.
Speaker Pelosis also said that, short of an impeachment process, Congress is entitled to investigate and even to lay a foundation through its investigation to later bring an impeachment. Congress is fully entitled, whichever party controls it, to investigate the person in the White House, for abuses of power, lying, or breaking laws.
...
You said earlier that this is a political process. Because its a political process, does it bother you less when Pelosi kind of says that it would be better for Democrats not to impeach Trump? Or do you mean something different by political?
The political process clearly involves all the political leaders and members of Congress, and they will make calculations on the basis of politics as well as the Constitution. Thats part of what we get from the design of the impeachment process. Im not critical of Speaker Pelosi when she says what you said. Shes also said, Look, the President has lied and some investigations are needed, and thats a perfectly appropriate judgment.
The mix of political and constitutional is really a hard one to figure out sometimes. And the political judgment may in a sense outweigh the constitutional judgment or vice-versa, and the reason it might work out differently at different times is the political makeup of Congress. For example, if Democrats had control of the House and the Senate when Clinton was President, my guess is there would have been no impeachment.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/a-constitutional-scholar-on-the-purpose-of-impeachment
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Please stop assuming if you don't see the Democrats strategizing and whipping, it's not happening [View all]
StarfishSaver
Jun 2019
OP
oh bull. the only thing going on is the Speaker making a pass. Whatever. I'm past it.
Kurt V.
Jun 2019
#1
Well, please tell us what rural Missouri knows that the rest of us don't. nt
Progressive Jones
Jun 2019
#43
i decided not to share that bc its a part of politics that's less than democratic. 20 yrs ago and
Kurt V.
Jun 2019
#145
I wasn't the least bit "taken aback." In fact, I gladly accepted the information you provided me
StarfishSaver
Jun 2019
#129
Whoever they are working for, they sure get a lot of free time judging by the sheer number of posts.
Tipperary
Jun 2019
#147
Oh, come on now. We all know they're just sitting by their pools, drinking daiquiris
The Velveteen Ocelot
Jun 2019
#8
So, it seems like you're saying they had best begin impeachment hearings so that
PatrickforO
Jun 2019
#59
And apparently the person who's throwing the beached starfish back into the ocean.
The Velveteen Ocelot
Jun 2019
#45
Lesson 101 on the internet. Don't believe everything an anonymous poster says.
Nevermypresident
Jun 2019
#202
Some think that if there are no public hearings they're not doing anything. Fact is....
George II
Jun 2019
#18
And you are persistent in accusing me of attacking you when I've done nothing of the kind
StarfishSaver
Jun 2019
#29
I still don't understand why we trusted Mueller so much. He was appointed by a republican who was..
JoeOtterbein
Jun 2019
#44
By now, if you gotta whip Democrats into supporting an inquiry, it's already over. n/t
Hoyt
Jun 2019
#27
Maybe this will help-- By now, if you GOTTA CHANGE DEMOCRATS' MINDS on inquiry, it's already over.
Hoyt
Jun 2019
#34
Looks like Trumpland's not the only place where people accuse anyone who knows more than they do
Empowerer
Jun 2019
#75
Was this in the posters post? Because this sounds like you, so why the quotes?
ChubbyStar
Jun 2019
#83
Not true. We should be going to their Town Halls and making daily phone calls and/or emails.
pnwmom
Jun 2019
#70
Please illuminate how ABC News got it wrong because I don't see any substantial difference in your
Nevermypresident
Jun 2019
#169
I explained in my post how ABC got it wrong, but I'll break it down for you again
StarfishSaver
Jun 2019
#171
"The critical determination comes to the speaker about whether or not to forward it,"
Nevermypresident
Jun 2019
#176
Respectfully, I don't agree with your assertion that I changed the subject if you look at the string
Nevermypresident
Jun 2019
#181
...and I will stand by what I said in my prior post and defer to the Constitutional Law Professor
Nevermypresident
Jun 2019
#184
No, dear - it's what I call "participating in a discussion on a public discussion board"
EffieBlack
Jun 2019
#188
I assumed you read the string of posts between StarfishSaver and myself.
Nevermypresident
Jun 2019
#193
Having "the power to influence" whether a committee takes up a matter is not the same as
EffieBlack
Jun 2019
#194
FYI - I edited my post - and showed my edit - because after I did more research, I discovered that
StarfishSaver
Jun 2019
#197
"Nadler pressed Pelosi to allow his committee to launch an impeachment inquiry against Trump -- the
Nevermypresident
Jun 2019
#200
Since you're citing Professor Gerhardt as your unassailable source, you may want to read what else
StarfishSaver
Jun 2019
#196
I think you've got this backwards. She's got many Reps in swing districts and the only thing worse
pnwmom
Jun 2019
#90
Where did I say that? He's a R who apparently thinks he'll be okay in his R district.
pnwmom
Jun 2019
#119
What's funny is why you would care much less ask someone why he asked another poster a question
EffieBlack
Jun 2019
#102
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You are one of the few realistic voices on this issue.
CaptainTruth
Jun 2019
#66
I respectfully disagree with regards to trump. Our leadership has had since the day Mueller/Special
Nevermypresident
Jun 2019
#132
StarfishSaver, I read every one of your posts in the voice of Chuck Rosenberg.
CaptainTruth
Jun 2019
#74
You post behind an anonymous ID. Do you seriously believe myself and others are not savvy
Nevermypresident
Jun 2019
#130
Silence. Guess none that close to the real action like they are tacitly purporting. Hmmmm.
Laura PourMeADrink
Jun 2019
#168