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Ms. Toad

(38,697 posts)
82. No. They are just demonstrating a single hack - and expecting readers not to ask the questions
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 07:11 PM
Jun 2019

that are obvious to any person with experience in elections and programming.

In August, the Def Con conference in Las Vegas ran a "Voting Village", where participants were encouraged to uncover flaws in US election infrastructure by hacking into various computer systems


It is trivial to hack a single voting machine, when you are given the machine and no restrictions on gaining access to the machine. The actual hack has to be surreptitious - and be carried out nearly simultaneously on hundreds or thousands of machines. That is what makes it virtually impossible.

The organisers of the conference argue that because the unit is designed to process a high volume of ballots, hacking one of the machines could enable an attacker to "flip the electoral college and determine the outcome of a presidential election​".


Could hacking one machine change the numbers? Sure. But hacking one of the machines would produce data so anomalous that it would be blatantly obvious. To be successful (i.e. carried out and not immediately detected), you would need to shift a few votes in each precinct - i.e. multiple machines.

Other machines tested include the AccuVote TSx, currently used by 18 US states. The system includes a smart card reader for users to cast votes, which the report says can be easily disconnected to "disrupt the election" process.

Attendees of the conference were also able to reprogramme voting smart cards wirelessly, using mobile phones.


First disruption is not the same as changing votes - and would have been obvious had it happened during an election, and the results would have been unpredictable. It would have a similar, but less refined, effect as voter purges (voter purges impact a targeted population; disruption would impact everyone in a particular voting location equally)

Second the smard card is essentially a key - it contains virtually no data, other than what is needed to lock/unlock the machine and pull up the correct ballot form. The most that could be done would be to set it from voted to not voted - or to pull up a different ballot than the one for which it was originally programmed, in order to register a second or third vote.

But since the number of voters is stored separately, a machine that registered more voters than actually voted would be flagged during the post-election audit and publically reported. Further, anyone taking double or more time to vote would be interrupted. In some places there are strict time limits, but in every precinct in which I've served as an observer, someone taking the extended time necessary to cast multiple ballots (or interrupting the process to reprogram the card from voted to not voted) would be noticed.

I am not disputing that machines can be hacked. Any machine can be hacked.

What is nearly impossible would be for there to have been the massive conspiracynecessary to carry out the hack on thousands of machines and kept it secret for a minimum of 14 years.

No one, including the experts you have cited have even come close to outlining a full scale plan that could be secretly carried out, with few enough participants to keep it secret, with no public slip-ups. They demonstrate - essentially a magic trick (in which they don't even bother to make their sleight of hand invisible) and then expect me (with nearly 2 decades of experience in most aspects of elections - and others similarly situated) to believe that thousands of people could carry out the same magic trick - while making their sleight of hand completely invisible in order to avoid detection - and not a single participant slipped up, or told their spouse, child, neighbor, local barkeep, etc.

It just doesn't pass the laugh test.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Websites don't contain official results FBaggins Jun 2019 #1
There is a connection, watoos Jun 2019 #4
And we now know the Russians edhopper Jun 2019 #6
Russians hacked the voter registration systems, not the voting systems. Ms. Toad Jun 2019 #47
we don't actually know and trump has jailed whistleblowers that tried to inform us questionseverything Jun 2019 #72
I'll fix this later - responded to wrong sub thread. Ms. Toad Jun 2019 #75
I think if the Trump administration prosecuted a whistleblower we can safely assume they know triron Jun 2019 #78
We do know what was hacked. Ms. Toad Jun 2019 #83
+10 nt reACTIONary Jun 2019 #90
And attempted to exploit every state in 2016. triron Jun 2019 #77
Why always the same naysayers? triron Jun 2019 #80
Happened here in Texas in 2018. Lonestarblue Jun 2019 #14
No. There isn't. FBaggins Jun 2019 #18
Or.... bluecollar2 Jun 2019 #35
Why not just imagine a Jedi who can change votes with the Force? FBaggins Jun 2019 #38
No offense but you don't understand how this works ... mr_lebowski Jun 2019 #53
+100 reACTIONary Jun 2019 #92
So agree. Wellstone ruled Jun 2019 #60
No, voting machines can't be hacked like websites. former9thward Jun 2019 #74
Are voting machines connected to the internet? reACTIONary Jun 2019 #88
I would like the actual facts that are provided by certified authorities. olegramps Jun 2019 #25
I think it is obvious edhopper Jun 2019 #28
I believe that it is the propaganda by the extreme right that is the major factor. olegramps Jun 2019 #29
Yes edhopper Jun 2019 #42
New York rocks! It's the best way to do it FakeNoose Jun 2019 #55
Disagree... Thunderbeast Jun 2019 #73
Better make sure postage is paid for otherwise people won't participate. YOHABLO Jun 2019 #94
even with paper ballots, the key is transparency questionseverything Jun 2019 #86
The results are what matter, in case that's not clear. We could all vote for Mayor Pete, but ... Hekate Jun 2019 #76
Sorry... that's an entirely different paranoia FBaggins Jun 2019 #85
+10 nt reACTIONary Jun 2019 #91
+10 nt reACTIONary Jun 2019 #89
So? jberryhill Jun 2019 #2
How do you know for sure? pangaia Jun 2019 #23
Tell that to Fluffy! qazplm135 Jun 2019 #34
I had a beagle/bassett mix that looked like he had five legs, but I don't think he was hacked. dameatball Jun 2019 #36
Just a little excited? jberryhill Jun 2019 #41
Nor does posting fictitious rumors about the stock exchange ever change volatility or price. LanternWaste Jun 2019 #67
No. Your heading indicates that you really don't stopdiggin Jun 2019 #96
But yet we live in a world where 63 million votes has more weight than 65 million ck4829 Jun 2019 #101
A website isn't a voting machine... brooklynite Jun 2019 #3
Talk to John Kerry edhopper Jun 2019 #5
See, here's the funny thing... brooklynite Jun 2019 #7
Did you talk to the computer programmer watoos Jun 2019 #9
Funny how we keep winning elections... brooklynite Jun 2019 #10
What are you saying? Don't worry about it? gtar100 Jun 2019 #44
This edhopper Jun 2019 #46
He did say this edhopper Jun 2019 #12
and didn't the media companies promptly eliminate "exit" polling? not_the_one Jun 2019 #87
How can anyone claim that votes were changed watoos Jun 2019 #8
That's just repeating conspiracy theory nonsense FBaggins Jun 2019 #32
How are the machines audited? watoos Jun 2019 #56
I'd guess they have people vote on the machines, then they check that the results mr_lebowski Jun 2019 #61
The same way any other system is tested/audited FBaggins Jun 2019 #63
Thank you stopdiggin Jun 2019 #97
Well, in the last case you describe, that doesn't prove much other than mr_lebowski Jun 2019 #59
You deciding that you don't believe something happens is not evidence FBaggins Jun 2019 #64
Thanx for trying! TomVilmer Jun 2019 #70
wasn't there one of the intelligence officials NewJeffCT Jun 2019 #16
they didn't have access to voting machines stopdiggin Jun 2019 #98
Pretend? malaise Jun 2019 #11
Read the replies edhopper Jun 2019 #13
... 2naSalit Jun 2019 #15
Gore was robbed malaise Jun 2019 #19
I have to agree here! bluestarone Jun 2019 #20
There are different kinds of shit shows. Ms. Toad Jun 2019 #57
Some expert disagree with you edhopper Jun 2019 #62
No. They are just demonstrating a single hack - and expecting readers not to ask the questions Ms. Toad Jun 2019 #82
that lays it out nicely stopdiggin Jun 2019 #99
We've been hearing such stories PatSeg Jun 2019 #17
I thought it was possible the very night of the election, because it was against ALL DATA. Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #21
Agree edhopper Jun 2019 #22
I agree. Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #33
Yes edhopper Jun 2019 #43
That's very cool. I haven't met many Hopper fans. Not that I go around asking. nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #51
I know many edhopper Jun 2019 #52
One of the books I have...a huge coffee table book... Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #66
indeed. nt Baltimike Jun 2019 #37
Russ Feingold was @ 90% chance of winning his senate race in Wisconsin in 2016 Botany Jun 2019 #48
+1. nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #49
How Long by Have Republicans Been Stealing Elections? dlk Jun 2019 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author edhopper Jun 2019 #26
At least from 2000 edhopper Jun 2019 #27
And the Senate! n/t DFW Jun 2019 #31
Yes edhopper Jun 2019 #45
17 years ago, my brother said he could do that with a cell phone and a laptop DFW Jun 2019 #30
Pooty is relieved. moondust Jun 2019 #39
To all the naysayers to posts on this article benld74 Jun 2019 #40
Wow - This is a load of crap. Oneironaut Jun 2019 #50
+100 nt reACTIONary Jun 2019 #93
Could not a stolen election be considered a coup. CCExile Jun 2019 #54
I want someone to post 1 example watoos Jun 2019 #58
Define "independent" FBaggins Jun 2019 #71
"Why do we pretend the elections weren't stolen." FiveGoodMen Jun 2019 #65
And Democrats for the most part seem unconcerned and bored by the topic, I'll never understand that LiberalLovinLug Jun 2019 #68
Even many in here, baffling! Iwasthere Jun 2019 #81
In the past Dems believed turnout was the solution to Republican cheating. Aaron Pereira Jun 2019 #69
Does anybody really think that the Republicans Locutusofborg Jun 2019 #79
That's the only reason he won edhopper Jun 2019 #84
Please note that this happened almost a year ago. Stonepounder Jun 2019 #95
K&R ck4829 Jun 2019 #100
If an 11 year old kid could do this, imagine what the adults could do... FM123 Jun 2019 #102
Calling: Hackers for Democracy CrispyQ Jun 2019 #103
knr triron Jun 2019 #104
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»PBS: An 11-year-old chang...»Reply #82