Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
15. A couple of points
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 12:53 PM
Jan 2012

In addition to the excellent summary of information you provide.

(1) It should also be noted (it seems to go without saying, but I think people forget this) that the NDAA was not just about this one issue. It was a huge, 565-page, $662 billion bill, created annually, that "authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, crucial services for service members and their families, and vital national security programs. In hundreds of separate sections totaling over 500 pages, the Act also contains critical Administration initiatives to control the spiraling health care costs of the Department of Defense (DoD), to develop counter-terrorism initiatives within the U.S. and abroad, to build the security capacity of key partners, to modernize the force, and to boost the efficiency and effectiveness of military operations worldwide."

The consequences of vetoing it (which the president threatened to do, and for that reason did get a quasi-concession, though clearly not enough to avoid him issuing a stern signing statement) were fairly enormous: all US Defense operations, including soldiers' pay, and intelligence operations, would grind to a halt.

This is not to condone its contentious provision about detention, which has been discussed ad infinitum here. But to remind people what the stakes were. The amended language and the signing statement have given me, personally, assurance that this administration, at least, will not detain an American citizen in this country without charges or trial, or indefinitely under its watch. A new NDAA will have to be written and voted on before the current term of this administration ends--that is, for 2013. This is not, de facto, a permanent provision. I think people are best advised to move on to assuring that this language is taken out of the next NDAA.

(2) This is perhaps an aside that will be scorned. But I feel compelled to comment. It amazes me sometimes how a number of people here (and I don't know that they are coterminous with those who sincerely are alarmed at the NDAA provision, though certain well-discussed bloggers that have created contention on this board lately do fit in this double category) can speak highly of a candidate like Ron Paul for his stances on drugs or war, while completely ignoring his absolutely horrific stances on issues like economics, on totally gutting social programs like Medicare, Medicaid and SS, on race, on sexual orientation, etc. And yet this one single issue, they claim, makes them turn virulently on a president who has accomplished a broad range of progressive moves in these other areas. That, to me, speaks of another agenda. And it makes no sense.

You are right to explain to these people (though it will certainly fall on deaf ears) why they should support this president, despite the NDAA issue.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Are you conceding that his signing of NDAA was wrong? comipinko Jan 2012 #1
No ProSense Jan 2012 #6
I read it as well, I, however am not satisfied. comipinko Jan 2012 #18
Do you at least concede Aerows Jan 2012 #78
I think the veto would make a difference Charlemagne Jan 2012 #102
Oh, I agree Aerows Jan 2012 #140
Indeed Charlemagne Jan 2012 #146
There are a million reasons for liberals to vote to re-elect President Obama. dawg Jan 2012 #2
1 2 and 3 sound more like excuses to me Autumn Jan 2012 #3
Well, ProSense Jan 2012 #7
Has there been anything Obama has done that you disagreed with? Serious question. n-t Logical Jan 2012 #4
This ProSense Jan 2012 #8
So I will take that to mean "No"! Thanks! Logical Jan 2012 #12
That's up to you. n/t ProSense Jan 2012 #14
given your moniker...the assumption seems silly Sheepshank Jan 2012 #118
Sometimes no answer is an answer. Read some political analysis. Logical Jan 2012 #131
And this isn't the situation where no answer is an answer, Sheepshank Jan 2012 #137
Not at all. He/She will not answer the question directly so I have to base my opinion.... Logical Jan 2012 #138
You can not answer that, honestly, can you??? comipinko Jan 2012 #19
Wait ProSense Jan 2012 #20
Seems you can not even answer a question. comipinko Jan 2012 #21
Well, ProSense Jan 2012 #22
LOL, you are almost as good at avoiding unpleasant questions as comipinko Jan 2012 #24
Well, ProSense Jan 2012 #29
I take that back, you are better at it. comipinko Jan 2012 #33
Holy shit, just answer the question. WilliamPitt Jan 2012 #40
No. ProSense Jan 2012 #42
A better question, still... MADem Jan 2012 #128
Still, here's ProSense Jan 2012 #44
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #51
You ProSense Jan 2012 #53
Then put her on ignore, Pitt. Robb Jan 2012 #56
What a low blow- Raffi Ella Jan 2012 #60
all it does is "cut and paste" comipinko Jan 2012 #70
"It"? Raffi Ella Jan 2012 #83
LOL !!! comipinko Jan 2012 #84
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #85
Would you kindly translate that bit of Latin? nt msanthrope Jan 2012 #86
ok comipinko Jan 2012 #89
Really? Is that what is says? I'd love to see your diagramming msanthrope Jan 2012 #93
Only high school latin. very rough. comipinko Jan 2012 #94
Romanes Eunt Domus, eh? And no, I welcome all new DUers who are pointed out to me. msanthrope Jan 2012 #97
from the house of rome? comipinko Jan 2012 #99
Yes. I hope you got the joke--it seemed in keeping with your level of aptitude. nt msanthrope Jan 2012 #100
Meus, es vos umquan plenus of vestri comipinko Jan 2012 #101
Your skills are declining. msanthrope Jan 2012 #104
I thought that one was better. comipinko Jan 2012 #105
So you are the person who decides "respected" DU members? Is that a mod role? Logical Jan 2012 #115
This is not true; Prosense has included arguments treestar Jan 2012 #108
Prosense gets special treatment here from the "progressives'. Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #129
In reading this thread... Spazito Jan 2012 #133
its called supportive info Sheepshank Jan 2012 #119
Why is it so incredibly difficult for you to answer this simple question? Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #47
Because ProSense Jan 2012 #49
I hate hypocrites. comipinko Jan 2012 #71
Are you or are you not a member of the Communist Party? Robb Jan 2012 #61
I'm not a member of the communist party and I'm not a witch.... Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #67
That question could easily be turned around treestar Jan 2012 #109
PS has a JOB to do. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #54
Evidently ProSense Jan 2012 #58
The irony of you saying that isn't lost on me. Robb Jan 2012 #62
It warms my heart that you would even notice... cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #63
You are trying to put this person on the spot so you can create ad hominem treestar Jan 2012 #121
I asked you earlier if you agreed with the NDAA Aerows Jan 2012 #141
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #66
Why does there have to be? treestar Jan 2012 #106
I think reality is a good trait. So the GOPers who 100% supported Bush made you proud of them? Logical Jan 2012 #110
No, but I thought they were wrong on most things. treestar Jan 2012 #112
Anyone who defends EVERYTHING Obama does is not a valid source of information.... Logical Jan 2012 #113
If you're tired of endless cheerleading for a Democrat treestar Jan 2012 #120
I agree that the Obama bashing is bad...... Logical Jan 2012 #132
And no one can start an Obama good post without some bashers treestar Jan 2012 #144
When you refuse to answer simple questions about your position on an argument Aerows Jan 2012 #143
No one has to answer this "simple question" which is purely ad hominem treestar Jan 2012 #145
And by refusing to answer it Aerows Jan 2012 #147
No one has the right to put someone else on the spot treestar Jan 2012 #148
Tyranny? Aerows Jan 2012 #149
It just reminds me of tyrants treestar Jan 2012 #151
another illogical statement Sheepshank Jan 2012 #125
Your post made no sense to me. I will read it later when I have time to decode it. Logical Jan 2012 #134
Uhhhh......2012 is long gone.....where have you been ??? lumpy Mar 2014 #156
He's a tool of the ruling class, but marginally better than a republican. immoderate Jan 2012 #5
I do not respect your tactics, so I do not care what your opinion is, in fact, it is Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #9
You ProSense Jan 2012 #10
Or provide feedback on them is an option that he used! Maybe a better one! Logical Jan 2012 #114
If I may Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2012 #11
The onus ProSense Jan 2012 #13
The NDAA is reauthorized every year isn't it? NNN0LHI Jan 2012 #16
Didn't John Yoo invent/champion signing statements ghostwritten for Bush II? getdown Jan 2012 #117
Then you didn't worry about Bush's signing statements either? treestar Jan 2012 #122
If Bush, or any other president, operated outside the law Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2012 #152
OK so you weren't outraged at Bush's either treestar Jan 2012 #153
I was as "outraged" as any ridiculous charade could make me. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2012 #154
A couple of points frazzled Jan 2012 #15
This is ProSense Jan 2012 #17
NDAA is a convenient tool to bash Obama with - it's the new FEMA Camp and Obama = Bush meme. Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #130
Wouldn't a veto override involve The House as well? bro Jan 2012 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author comipinko Jan 2012 #25
Yes ProSense Jan 2012 #27
Of course your silly logic assumes that a POTUS veto would NOT change any DEM. votes. comipinko Jan 2012 #37
Hmmm? ProSense Jan 2012 #38
Would you kindly translate that Latin sentence you used? nt msanthrope Jan 2012 #87
. comipinko Jan 2012 #90
Declining 'oculi' was that difficult? But why not just use English? msanthrope Jan 2012 #95
as I said before, high school latin. 30 some years ago. comipinko Jan 2012 #96
Romanes Eunt Domus, eh? Welcome! I welcome all new Duers. nt msanthrope Jan 2012 #98
there is no "party leader" treestar Jan 2012 #123
We can admit that President Obama signed the NDAA? A Simple Game Jan 2012 #26
Actually, ProSense Jan 2012 #28
"Now, want to fill me in on why you are so focused on me? " WilliamPitt Jan 2012 #41
What? ProSense Jan 2012 #48
As I recall, the main question was WilliamPitt Jan 2012 #52
You ProSense Jan 2012 #57
I wonder Robb Jan 2012 #64
I will be WilliamPitt Jan 2012 #69
Don't PM me anymore ProSense Jan 2012 #91
If you are receiving bullying PMs Robb Jan 2012 #111
She doesn't have to answer it treestar Jan 2012 #124
This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Aug 2013 #155
I asked you an unrelated question because I was curious. A Simple Game Jan 2012 #82
I knew you would ask me a question. A Simple Game Jan 2012 #45
Hmmm? ProSense Jan 2012 #46
Hello, focus! A Simple Game Jan 2012 #50
It ProSense Jan 2012 #55
But I still don't know what to focus on without you telling me exactly what to do. A Simple Game Jan 2012 #81
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #74
I asked above, and wanted to make sure you see it. Would you translate the Latin msanthrope Jan 2012 #88
There's only ONE reason I'm voting for him. hobbit709 Jan 2012 #30
+1 Cali_Democrat Jan 2012 #31
This says one thing: ProSense Jan 2012 #34
i have NEVER voted for a Republican. hobbit709 Jan 2012 #36
+ any one with a brain. comipinko Jan 2012 #35
I imagine we interpret not merely words, but deeds too... LanternWaste Jan 2012 #32
I'll give you a much better reason... SomethingFishy Jan 2012 #39
1. He's a Democrat. Iggo Jan 2012 #43
You mean the signing statements we hated when the GOP was in office?? Logical Jan 2012 #59
This is not the same, Obama is the president. comipinko Jan 2012 #77
I love that he was berated for not using him redqueen Jan 2012 #79
Had he veto'd the bill, they would have found some justification to bash him for that action, too. Old and In the Way Jan 2012 #135
Those aren't reasons to vote for Obama, those are rationalizations for his actions, MadHound Jan 2012 #65
I ProSense Jan 2012 #68
You hit it right on the head. comipinko Jan 2012 #76
4. The Devil made him do it! nt Romulox Jan 2012 #72
how bout these reasons: romney, santorum, paul, perry, supreme court etc. etc. etc. spanone Jan 2012 #73
Apparently for some DUers those aren't sufficient reasons. redqueen Jan 2012 #80
One reason to vote for Obama even though he signed the NDAA Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #75
the lack of opponents of the President to answer the points in your OP grantcart Jan 2012 #92
This message was self-deleted by its author comipinko Jan 2012 #103
Mainly because the NDAA does not mean what they claim it means treestar Jan 2012 #107
This is further proof that the presidency getdown Jan 2012 #116
so don't vote Dem then Sheepshank Jan 2012 #126
thats not at all getdown Jan 2012 #127
You're saying the system is futile Sheepshank Jan 2012 #136
what i mean is getdown Jan 2012 #139
You can be displeased with some of the actions of a particular politician Aerows Jan 2012 #150
Here's my response: right on maude... Jan 2012 #142
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Three reasons to vote for...»Reply #15