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jimmy the one

(2,844 posts)
25. 1938-39 Dept of Justice DoJ amicus brief
Tue Aug 6, 2019, 02:23 PM
Aug 2019

baggins: The fact that it was in the DOJ brief and nobody on the court adopted that reasoning refutes your assumptions. If nobody argued that and the court left it out.. Taking an amicus brief that is not referenced by the court in their decision

Oh please. There were dozens of items re DoJ amicus brief advice the 1939 supreme court did not mention in the miller decision. But the supreme court ruling did mention several opinions from DoJ's amicus brief, which indicates they both were on the same page regarding the militial interpretation of 2ndA.

Miller 1939 decision: The Militia which the States were expected to maintain and train is set in contrast with Troops {standing army} which they were forbidden to keep without the consent of Congress.

DoJ 1938 amicus brief: Second Amendment does not grant to the people the right to keep and bear arms, but merely recognizes the prior existence of that right and prohibits its {militial} infringement by Congress

Miller decision: "In all the colonies, as in England, the militia system was based on the principle of the assize of arms. This implied the general obligation of all adult male inhabitants to possess arms, and, with certain exceptions, to cooperate in the work of defence.

DoJ amicus brief: under the common law of England and of this country. In both countries the right to keep and bear arms has been generally restricted to the keeping and bearing of arms by the people collectively for their common defense and security.

Miller decision: Court cannot take judicial notice that a shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches long has today any reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, and therefore cannot say that {2ndA} guarantees to the citizen {concomitantly in the broad sense here} the right to keep and bear such a weapon.

DoJ amicus brief: Sawed-off shotguns, sawed-off rifles and machine guns are clearly weapons which can have no legitimate use in the hands of private individuals.

If you want a reason for why 1939 supreme court did not specifically mention DoJ's citing adams & 'no individual right', perhaps it was to recognize the dichotomy which existed in 1939 (& long prior), between the individual & militia interpretations within state constitutions, which would preclude federal interference:

1939 miller: Most if not all of the States have adopted provisions touching the right to keep and bear arms. Differences in the language employed in these have naturally led to somewhat variant conclusions concerning the scope of the right guaranteed. But none of them seems to afford any material support for the challenged ruling of the court below.
https://guncite.com/miller-brief.htm

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The basic point is accurate... but some of the examples are off FBaggins Aug 2019 #1
I agree. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2019 #2
agree. Repeal it! n/t Brainstormy Aug 2019 #5
We should have stayed with England, we'd have health care too. Hoyt Aug 2019 #3
Good point PJMcK Aug 2019 #26
Think the author should do some more research - 3rd and 6th amendments in 1971? jmg257 Aug 2019 #4
Research? Nah, it's just a typo BruceWane Aug 2019 #15
supreme court 1939 miller decision jimmy the one Aug 2019 #6
' raging moderate Aug 2019 #7
What do you think would have happened had Miller livrd aikoaiko Aug 2019 #9
had jack miller lived jimmy the one Aug 2019 #29
For people who think a shotgun is good home defense, aikoaiko Aug 2019 #32
Maybe... but it doesn't have to be under that 18" barrel standard to be useful for home defense FBaggins Aug 2019 #34
Hey Jimmy! Since by 1939, the people were already only the UNorganized Militia, jmg257 Aug 2019 #10
flies in your ointments jimmy the one Aug 2019 #12
Understood about Heller - we were talking Miller. You use the decision as proof of militia relation jmg257 Aug 2019 #13
what they did NOT say, does not trump what they DID say jimmy the one Aug 2019 #16
What I stated, just like the USSC did, is quite clear...exactly WHY it went against Miller... jmg257 Aug 2019 #18
But some in yours as well FBaggins Aug 2019 #14
the prevailing 1939 thought was no individual rkba jimmy the one Aug 2019 #17
You've provided no evidence for that FBaggins Aug 2019 #19
flies in the bulloffal jimmy the one Aug 2019 #23
Once again... general claims without evidence FBaggins Aug 2019 #28
not unanimous en banc like 1939 scotus re miller jimmy the one Aug 2019 #31
Entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts FBaggins Aug 2019 #33
the phantom justice, ray roberts jimmy the one Aug 2019 #35
Hiding by replying to yourself? FBaggins Aug 2019 #36
1938-39 Dept of Justice DoJ amicus brief jimmy the one Aug 2019 #25
So if Miller had a gun that was suitable for militia service then he would've been ok? hack89 Aug 2019 #30
Civil Rights were considered unconstitutional, radius777 Aug 2019 #8
criticism of 2008 heller decision by british scholars jimmy the one Aug 2019 #11
Those British scholars would use English law to justify us still being a colony. former9thward Aug 2019 #21
Your suspicions are necessary to validate your own biases. LanternWaste Aug 2019 #24
Umm, put of idle curiosity Mike_DuBois Aug 2019 #37
The Heller decision goes to great lengths to discuss the history/origins of 2A FBaggins Aug 2019 #38
bulloffal jimmy the one Aug 2019 #40
scalia invalidly cited english history in heller jimmy the one Aug 2019 #39
Yeah, sorry 'bout that Mike_DuBois Aug 2019 #42
Many errors in the post. former9thward Aug 2019 #20
Follow the money... Buckeyeblue Aug 2019 #22
Good post, Soph PJMcK Aug 2019 #27
more truth about the militia intent of 2ndA jimmy the one Aug 2019 #41
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