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jimmy the one

(2,844 posts)
41. more truth about the militia intent of 2ndA
Wed Aug 7, 2019, 11:08 AM
Aug 2019

More quotes & info from early 19th American writers, regarding the true meaning of the 2nd amendment:

1) Benjamin Oliver, Right of an American Citizen, 1832 (+emph):
"The provision of the constitution, declaring the right of the people to keep and bear arms, &c. was probably intended to apply to the right of the people to bear arms for such [militia-related] purposes only, and not to prevent congress or the legislatures of the different states from enacting laws to prevent the citizens from always going armed. A different construction however has been given to it."

Oliver was not alone in his views.. The notion that there was a general consensus on the meaning of the Second Amendment that supports an individual right with no connection to the militia is simply gun rights propaganda passing as scholarship.' Saul Cornell

2) No right to keep & bear arms in the Articles of Confederation, America's first constitution, adopted 1777, ratified 1781:
No vessel of war shall be kept up in time of peace by any State, except such number only, as shall be deemed necessary by the united States in congress assembled, for the defense of such State, or its trade; nor shall any body of forces be kept up by any State in time of peace, except such number only, as in the judgement of the united States, in congress assembled, shall be deemed requisite to garrison the forts necessary for the defense of such State; but every State shall always keep up a well-regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accoutered, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage.
search 'arms': https://www.usconstitution.net/articles.html#Article3

3) Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story wrote about the same time: "The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers, and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.
And yet, though this truth would seem so clear, and the importance of a well regulated militia would seem so undeniable, it cannot be disguised, that among the American people there is a growing indifference to any system of militia discipline, and a strong disposition, from a sense of its burdens, to be rid of all regulations. How it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see. There is certainly no small danger, that indifference may lead to disgust, and disgust to contempt, and thus gradually undermine all the protection intended by this clause of our National Bill of Rights."

https://selfeducatedamerican.com/2013/01/15/the-palladium-of-the-liberties-of-the-republic-justice-joseph-story/

Quite clear that Justice Story felt the 2ndA right to keep & bear arms & be 'duly armed' thereby, was impracticable without 'some organization' which of course was the militia. Not duly armed by an individual right, but duly armed within an organization.
Inexplicably, the gun lobby has twisted story's words & use this very passage to contend he was supporting an individual rkba.
Story also spoke of the dichotomy which had arisen early 1800's between militia supporters versus militia scofflaws who did not wish to be bothered with the militia system - to be rid of all regulations - who felt they had an rkba without militia involvement. This is tragically the opinion which has taken over in our 20th & 21st centuries, thanks to a far right wing gun lobby.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The basic point is accurate... but some of the examples are off FBaggins Aug 2019 #1
I agree. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2019 #2
agree. Repeal it! n/t Brainstormy Aug 2019 #5
We should have stayed with England, we'd have health care too. Hoyt Aug 2019 #3
Good point PJMcK Aug 2019 #26
Think the author should do some more research - 3rd and 6th amendments in 1971? jmg257 Aug 2019 #4
Research? Nah, it's just a typo BruceWane Aug 2019 #15
supreme court 1939 miller decision jimmy the one Aug 2019 #6
' raging moderate Aug 2019 #7
What do you think would have happened had Miller livrd aikoaiko Aug 2019 #9
had jack miller lived jimmy the one Aug 2019 #29
For people who think a shotgun is good home defense, aikoaiko Aug 2019 #32
Maybe... but it doesn't have to be under that 18" barrel standard to be useful for home defense FBaggins Aug 2019 #34
Hey Jimmy! Since by 1939, the people were already only the UNorganized Militia, jmg257 Aug 2019 #10
flies in your ointments jimmy the one Aug 2019 #12
Understood about Heller - we were talking Miller. You use the decision as proof of militia relation jmg257 Aug 2019 #13
what they did NOT say, does not trump what they DID say jimmy the one Aug 2019 #16
What I stated, just like the USSC did, is quite clear...exactly WHY it went against Miller... jmg257 Aug 2019 #18
But some in yours as well FBaggins Aug 2019 #14
the prevailing 1939 thought was no individual rkba jimmy the one Aug 2019 #17
You've provided no evidence for that FBaggins Aug 2019 #19
flies in the bulloffal jimmy the one Aug 2019 #23
Once again... general claims without evidence FBaggins Aug 2019 #28
not unanimous en banc like 1939 scotus re miller jimmy the one Aug 2019 #31
Entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts FBaggins Aug 2019 #33
the phantom justice, ray roberts jimmy the one Aug 2019 #35
Hiding by replying to yourself? FBaggins Aug 2019 #36
1938-39 Dept of Justice DoJ amicus brief jimmy the one Aug 2019 #25
So if Miller had a gun that was suitable for militia service then he would've been ok? hack89 Aug 2019 #30
Civil Rights were considered unconstitutional, radius777 Aug 2019 #8
criticism of 2008 heller decision by british scholars jimmy the one Aug 2019 #11
Those British scholars would use English law to justify us still being a colony. former9thward Aug 2019 #21
Your suspicions are necessary to validate your own biases. LanternWaste Aug 2019 #24
Umm, put of idle curiosity Mike_DuBois Aug 2019 #37
The Heller decision goes to great lengths to discuss the history/origins of 2A FBaggins Aug 2019 #38
bulloffal jimmy the one Aug 2019 #40
scalia invalidly cited english history in heller jimmy the one Aug 2019 #39
Yeah, sorry 'bout that Mike_DuBois Aug 2019 #42
Many errors in the post. former9thward Aug 2019 #20
Follow the money... Buckeyeblue Aug 2019 #22
Good post, Soph PJMcK Aug 2019 #27
more truth about the militia intent of 2ndA jimmy the one Aug 2019 #41
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