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onenote

(46,148 posts)
47. Actually, you said it would 'end' the EC 'indirectly.'
Thu Aug 22, 2019, 04:09 PM
Aug 2019

Of course, it really wouldn't. There would still be an EC. There could still be faithless electors if the 10th Circuit ruling isn't overturned.

I don't need for you to do any research on the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NIC) -- I've been following it for a very long time. The supporters claim that faithless electors won't be a problem for the following reasons: (1) faithless electors are rare; (2) state laws (or a federal law) could bar faithless electors; and (3) the margins of victory would make it highly unlikely that faithless electors could change the outcome of an election once the NIC goes into effect.

The problem with those explanations are: (1) if faithless electors are rare (and they have been) then the NIC won't really change things in that regard; (2) the court case calls into question whether such laws would withstand judicial review; and (3) if all states or states representing a sizable majority of the EC votes joined the NIC then it would make it very difficult for faithless electors to change the outcome. But by its terms the NIC will take effect when it is approved by states representing a bare majority (270) of the electoral college. And its likely that if and when the NIC takes effect it will be by a small margin since no state that voted for Trump has signed on to the NIC. So in theory, the NIC could take effect and still result in a close EC vote that could be undone by a handful of faithless electors. Apart from GWB's narrow victory, the margins in most elections under the current system also have been large enough (in the modern era) to make it unlikely that a faithless electors will change the outcome.

My point isn't that the EC is a good system. It's absolutely not. But the court ruling on faithless electors doesn't really change anything when it comes to arguments for or against the NIC or the current system. The NIC is to be preferred over the current system not because of anything having to do with faithless electors) but because it is the closest we can get to popular vote basis for choosing the president short of a constitutional amendment.

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Damn uponit7771 Aug 2019 #1
Tax returns are next Kilgore Aug 2019 #2
We have no choice but to end the EC, either directly or indirectly hlthe2b Aug 2019 #3
How does that help? Kilgore Aug 2019 #6
???? Do you know what the National Interstate Compact is? hlthe2b Aug 2019 #8
Yes Kilgore Aug 2019 #11
Kindly try reponding to my actual post argument rather than kneejerk, reflexive nay-saying. hlthe2b Aug 2019 #12
I did Kilgore Aug 2019 #14
The NIC would not "replace" the EC. It would change how states choose their electors onenote Aug 2019 #41
I never said it did replace EC. Kindly stop rephrasing or attributing words I never said. hlthe2b Aug 2019 #43
Actually, you said it would 'end' the EC 'indirectly.' onenote Aug 2019 #47
It does-- INDIRECTLY-- end it if successful. INDIRECTLY--look it up. hlthe2b Aug 2019 #49
Your answers assertions addressed in detail: hlthe2b Aug 2019 #44
You're misunderstanding what the compact does, or how it would work Ms. Toad Aug 2019 #57
I fully understand. You are misinterpreting my posts intentionally it would appear. hlthe2b Aug 2019 #58
Then please explain Ms. Toad Aug 2019 #60
This doesn't fix the problem of faithless electors Sgent Aug 2019 #19
Laurence Tribe believes it will. hlthe2b Aug 2019 #20
Tribe doesn't offer an explanation as to how the National Popular Vote compact would do away with onenote Aug 2019 #42
Your answers assertions addressed in detail: hlthe2b Aug 2019 #45
See my response - post #47 onenote Aug 2019 #48
See my response that you didn't bother to read. hlthe2b Aug 2019 #50
Your response was to cut and paste a page I've read in the past and was responding to in my post. onenote Aug 2019 #51
Your answers/ assertions addressed in detail: hlthe2b Aug 2019 #46
I brought this up yesterday but sarisataka Aug 2019 #28
You miss the point that they require (currently) states supplying more than 70 more EC votes. hlthe2b Aug 2019 #29
It still leaves no incentive for red states, sarisataka Aug 2019 #33
Had someone endlessly brought up the what-ifs of a Donald Trump to the founding fathers hlthe2b Aug 2019 #35
Different philosophies sarisataka Aug 2019 #38
Yet you offer no alternative... hlthe2b Aug 2019 #39
Yup. The litigation would be epic (nt) Recursion Aug 2019 #37
And NOW we're told that the 2020 presidential winner... maddiemom Aug 2019 #31
SC appeal next and there is time before 2020... hlthe2b Aug 2019 #4
Honestly do you think the outcome will change Kilgore Aug 2019 #7
Kneejerk response, but we won't know until they take it up. hlthe2b Aug 2019 #9
True Kilgore Aug 2019 #16
This is the type of issue more likely to come down 9-0 than 5-4. n/t PoliticAverse Aug 2019 #52
Your probably correct Kilgore Aug 2019 #61
Have you looked at the composition of the panel that made the ruling? FBaggins Aug 2019 #40
So now they can be bought and paid for by a bribe and no one can contest thier vote. infullview Aug 2019 #5
It's so much easier to pay off a few electors than to try Farmer-Rick Aug 2019 #25
"I know you're pledged to vote for Candidate X, and can give me Buns_of_Fire Aug 2019 #10
Well Played!!!!! Kilgore Aug 2019 #13
And money is speech according to Citizens United Captain Zero Aug 2019 #15
then why do we even vote? samnsara Aug 2019 #17
40 percent don't Farmer-Rick Aug 2019 #26
Show. Kid Berwyn Aug 2019 #32
I have pointed out for years sarisataka Aug 2019 #34
Hmmm. But not over even at this level. The 10th Circuit returned it Hortensis Aug 2019 #18
The Lessig name was familiar so I looked him up... WePurrsevere Aug 2019 #23
Exactly. Me too. Hortensis Aug 2019 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author groundloop Aug 2019 #21
Perhaps not as big a deal as it seems Fiendish Thingy Aug 2019 #22
At Some Point, If We Are to Remain a Democracy, the Electoral College Must Go dlk Aug 2019 #27
My own view is that I don't think it's so much PRETZEL Aug 2019 #36
Meh.... Sgent Aug 2019 #62
Electors in Red states may just come around. Trump does not deserve a 2nd term. ProudMNDemocrat Aug 2019 #30
No, it didn't "change how we pick our president". Electors could always vote for whomever they PoliticAverse Aug 2019 #53
Time to get rid of the EC. roamer65 Aug 2019 #54
The "Democratic" elector in the case voted for KASICH against Hillary?!1 This decision is NOT GOOD!1 UTUSN Aug 2019 #55
Three others voted for Colin Powell Shrek Aug 2019 #56
Changed? Isn't this how it's always been? Joe941 Aug 2019 #59
Stealing 2020 in its early stages? IdealsAndReal42 Aug 2019 #63
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