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hlthe2b

(112,982 posts)
106. Interesting take from counterintelligence expert, Asha Rangappa
Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:50 AM
Sep 2019


Full unrolled thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1174515385204445184.html (it may be easier to read at that link, but here is most of it) :


2. I'll first outline the best argument for Trump. The President enjoys wide latitude in foreign affairs. When it comes to the "outside world," the President represents the sovereign:He is basically the voice of the United States and can negotiate with world leaders on its behalf
3. I wrote about this very early on in the context of Trump's possible defense to obstruction charges involving Russia, which is also relevant here
Could Trump Really Say He Fired Comey in the Service of Foreign Policy?
Trump’s motive laundering could turn out to be a brilliant legal strategy—or just brilliantly stupid.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/23/trump-comey-russia-obstruction-of-justice-foreign-policy-215179
4. There is a separation of powers argument here: The President should be able to have confidential and diplomatic communications with other heads of state without undue interference from Congress: World leaders should feel secure that their convos won't be made public
5. HAVING SAID THAT -- there are limitations. First, as @jedshug has written (also in context of obstruction of justice), the President has a fiduciary obligation to act in the *best interests of the United States*. In other words, he cannot abuse his powers for personal gain
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6. Further, the "slice" of his "exclusive" Art. II powers is fairly narrow. Congress does have a say, for instance, whether we go to war in the absence of an emergency defensive action. It can also say that certain types of foreign policy actions are illegal
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7. So, for instance, while President Reagan might have argued that his actions in Iran Contra were in the best interest of the U.S. (preventing spread of Communism), they were nevertheless in violation of the Boland Amendment and still illegal
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8. In fact, much of the extensive congressional oversight over intelligence functions stems from things like Iran Contra -- you want to balance POTUS' foreign affairs/nat sec powers with transparency, individual rights (e.g., warrantless wiretapping after 9/11),and accountability
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9. The ICWPA tries to balance these interests in the context of nat sec/classified information: It makes the whistleblower go to an independent entity (agency IG or ICIG) to basically "vet" the complaint and make sure it is urgent
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10. The IG has to look at the complaint, determine that it is credible, and that it is urgent: That it is "[a] serious or flagrant problem, abuse, violation of law or Executive order, or deficiency relating to to...an intelligence activity involving classified information"
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11. I direct you to an excellent resource from @NatlSecCnslrs who wrote an excellent Q&A on the statute for @just_security here
Q&A on Whistleblower Complaint Being Withheld from Congressional Intelligence Committees
A look at the issues at play with the acting director of national intelligence refusing to turn over a whistleblower complaint to Congress.
https://www.justsecurity.org/66211/qa-on-whistleblower-complaint-being-withheld-from-congressional-intelligence-committees/
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12. Note that under the definition of "urgent," the complaint cannot simply be a difference in policy opinion. And the IG is an independent entity making the determination that it is serious enough to come to the attention of Congress
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13. This IG is a *Trump appointee* as @EricColumbus astutely notes
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14. Sooooo...we're basically left with the fact that a Trump appointee, found this complaint to be "urgent," meaning that it is not merely a policy dispute, beyond the broad Art. II foreign affairs authority POTUS enjoys, and likely illegal -- and which Congress must look at
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15. I will leave you with my evergreen piece on the two main issues the Framers were concerned about wrt to the POTUS: Self dealing and foreign influence
mentions Sorry, wrong link for my piece (but Eric's tweet is worth a second read! 😂
Trump’s Moscow Deal Is Exactly What the Framers Worried About
Self-dealing and foreign influence were their biggest fears for the presidency.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/12/03/donald-trumps-moscow-deal-framers-222752

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Paging Lindsey Graham Freethinker65 Sep 2019 #1
Honestly, is there any amount of apparent traitorous behavior they won't excuse? hlthe2b Sep 2019 #2
Apparently not. Treason is a profitable endeavor... dchill Sep 2019 #84
He didn't get DENVERPOPS Sep 2019 #127
Lip service - Lindsey's one talent. sandensea Sep 2019 #143
Betting on Putin. TruckFump Sep 2019 #3
Yes, that's a good bet. hlthe2b Sep 2019 #4
Pretty made in the shade. TruckFump Sep 2019 #5
It's Putty boy for sure. triron Sep 2019 #82
could also be Madman Bone Saw, for the money Hermit-The-Prog Sep 2019 #87
The Saudis are holding the "note" saidsimplesimon Sep 2019 #129
maybe he promised MBS we'd take Iran after fake attack on refinery Hermit-The-Prog Sep 2019 #130
Good bet ck4829 Sep 2019 #91
He most probably owes Putin more than the 2016 election Perseus Sep 2019 #138
Only one way to put it... TruckFump Sep 2019 #140
This is bad. It's gotta be Putin. gldstwmn Sep 2019 #6
Either putin or the Saudi prince who murdered Khashoggi. nt ecstatic Sep 2019 #19
Agree. SayItLoud Sep 2019 #24
That is my guess too. world wide wally Sep 2019 #36
holy shit. BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2019 #66
Not all the armies - just the nukes. lagomorph777 Sep 2019 #139
The interpreter? LiberalLovinLug Sep 2019 #65
Might as well assume that Trump explicitly pledged allegiance to Putin... Girard442 Sep 2019 #7
Trump, being asked to PROVE something? SergeStorms Sep 2019 #31
Indeed ck4829 Sep 2019 #98
Heads up tomorrow!! Dennis Donovan Sep 2019 #8
*MORE** hlthe2b Sep 2019 #9
**THIS is a bombshell!! Dennis Donovan Sep 2019 #12
More has to leak... even if the IG only speaks to Schiff's committee in private hlthe2b Sep 2019 #14
+1 dalton99a Sep 2019 #16
One possibility Desert grandma Sep 2019 #47
Yep. I bet he assured Putin he would run out the clock Ilsa Sep 2019 #70
Everyone is saying Putin. Nyet. Its Kim GusBob Sep 2019 #68
Or, promised him the U.S. would pull its military from South Korea... LudwigPastorius Sep 2019 #103
Or he would "take care of it" regarding... lame54 Sep 2019 #115
Good to know ck4829 Sep 2019 #92
What good are systems superpatriotman Sep 2019 #10
THIS IS A HUGE STORY ritapria Sep 2019 #11
It absolutely is ck4829 Sep 2019 #99
This matter must be fully fuck investigated. Nt BootinUp Sep 2019 #13
trump the traitor has to go. ecstatic Sep 2019 #15
GREAT news! bluestarone Sep 2019 #17
Is it treason yet? gldstwmn Sep 2019 #18
Yes. mtngirl47 Sep 2019 #44
Yes ck4829 Sep 2019 #97
We're not at war zipplewrath Sep 2019 #145
Rachel Maddow discussing NOW hlthe2b Sep 2019 #20
Seems this is a huge story Johnny2X2X Sep 2019 #21
It surely ought to be. hlthe2b Sep 2019 #23
It needs to be even bigger ck4829 Sep 2019 #93
and the acting DNI head's only excuse for not turning it over Takket Sep 2019 #22
Everyone is "acting" in Trump's administration. SergeStorms Sep 2019 #28
+1 uponit7771 Sep 2019 #39
O'Donnell just read line saying the whistleblower act is not subject to judicial review. muntrv Sep 2019 #67
I've been eerily calm today, waiting on a bombshell story...yep, here it is Leghorn21 Sep 2019 #25
Gotta' be Putin. SergeStorms Sep 2019 #26
This is HUGE malaise Sep 2019 #27
Did you hear Rachel's segment with Carol Leonig (spp?) from WAPO? hlthe2b Sep 2019 #29
My jaw dropped malaise Sep 2019 #30
"stunned incredulity" ---- can I use that for a song title? panader0 Sep 2019 #64
Sure - I stole it from a cricket commentator malaise Sep 2019 #88
Do we dare hope that Nevermypresident Sep 2019 #38
Which foreign leader was he making a "promise" to? kentuck Sep 2019 #32
What power is there to use. Congress's only power is through the courts; ancianita Sep 2019 #122
And of course, Seth Abramson is on it--his full thread (thus far) hlthe2b Sep 2019 #33
If the DNI had followed the Standard Protocol HiloHatti Sep 2019 #34
If reputable news outlets already know this much... W_HAMILTON Sep 2019 #35
Fear of being scammed like Dan Rather...N/T flotsam Sep 2019 #81
good point. stopdiggin Sep 2019 #131
Hopefully they will ck4829 Sep 2019 #94
t-rump and the republicans are a danger Iliyah Sep 2019 #37
Wow Gothmog Sep 2019 #40
Remember the spy extracted to the US & subsequently doxxed? That Putin desperately WANTS? hlthe2b Sep 2019 #41
Yep. dalton99a Sep 2019 #49
Trump promising Putin the spy in exchange for... SergeStorms Sep 2019 #62
Trump DENVERPOPS Sep 2019 #132
Do you mean.... SergeStorms Sep 2019 #141
Horrific indeed ck4829 Sep 2019 #100
This. nt GreenEyedLefty Sep 2019 #120
Putin or MBS or Kim Jong Un... BadgerMom Sep 2019 #42
the GOP has been working for decades to establish a bullet proof infrastructure to protect their yaesu Sep 2019 #43
I'm thinking THIS could bluestarone Sep 2019 #45
Lawrence O'Donnell about to cover too and going over the law... hlthe2b Sep 2019 #46
Now the whistleblower, according to law, can go directly with the docs to Congress, once the ancianita Sep 2019 #50
L.O. has a panel of top intel community experts in discussion. oasis Sep 2019 #60
Good timing to begin the impeachment proceedings. world wide wally Sep 2019 #48
My guess is that it was Putin as per the following: Botany Sep 2019 #51
Yep. Remote hacking. They've got the infrastructure to do this. ancianita Sep 2019 #52
And just by chance the voting machines were made with electronic backdoors that allowed ... Botany Sep 2019 #56
Yes, and just by chance MF45 is visiting all the blue states, and will over time be able to ancianita Sep 2019 #59
And yet the exit polls had HRC winning those states too. Botany Sep 2019 #69
Yes. And Trump's not worried about those states right now. He's in the harder terrain, like CA. ancianita Sep 2019 #74
Mueller said publicly that all levels of cyber attacks are going on "right now." Could the ancianita Sep 2019 #63
Mueller resigned in late May, 2019. Webhead Sep 2019 #119
Thanks. Welp, the whistleblower is either in the FBI or intel, then. My guess is the FBI. ancianita Sep 2019 #128
This isn't DENVERPOPS Sep 2019 #133
Even before that the GOP and part of the CIA had been working on manipulation of electronic .... Botany Sep 2019 #136
what are they using? Maybe... reACTIONary Sep 2019 #89
imagine how bad this is.... Takket Sep 2019 #53
Then what. I'm clueless about what the nation could do with it. He's betting noone can stop ancianita Sep 2019 #113
tRump and the conservanazis have ignored the rule of law. TxVietVet Sep 2019 #54
Only 3 MFM008 Sep 2019 #55
Yeah, this seems to be a truly 'chilling' thing the whistle-blower came upon. LenaBaby61 Sep 2019 #57
Not from where we stand it won't ck4829 Sep 2019 #96
I suspect this bombshell report is only the tip of the iceberg. The depth Enoki33 Sep 2019 #58
100% I will remember your name. Enoki, as a conduit of truth. Doodley Sep 2019 #78
You know it ck4829 Sep 2019 #95
Was it a promise to kill someone? EveHammond13 Sep 2019 #61
K&R Fan of Da Bearse Sep 2019 #71
Why doesn't the whistleblower secretly tell Schiff all about the call? Webhead Sep 2019 #72
Intel is listening and the legal whistleblower protections go out the window. The whistleblower ancianita Sep 2019 #75
Thanks for your reply, but... Webhead Sep 2019 #108
What could happen to the whistleblower if s/he goes to Schiff on the QT? ancianita Sep 2019 #112
Lawrence Tribe Tweeted that the Whistleblower... Webhead Sep 2019 #117
The IG meeting with Schiff is over. This is so urgent that Schiff will act on this NEXT WEEK. ancianita Sep 2019 #125
He knows Trump is a mobster, protected by dark forces that would kill if needed. Doodley Sep 2019 #77
Trump doesn't need dark forces to kill for him! Webhead Sep 2019 #124
Trump promised to deliver the US to Putin on a silver platter. mudstump Sep 2019 #73
The most shocking revelation is that Trump only made an improper promise to ONE foreign leader. Doodley Sep 2019 #76
That we know of. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2019 #80
Someone needs to put that whistleblower in protective custody Horse with no Name Sep 2019 #79
I'll wait till the facts come out. I hope they do. dem4decades Sep 2019 #83
knr triron Sep 2019 #85
Kicksters jeffreyi Sep 2019 #86
K&R ck4829 Sep 2019 #90
The key to the story is from Abramson's comments..(see post 33 by....hlthe2b.... ) Stuart G Sep 2019 #101
Yes. Some on AM Joe are trying to diminish the seriousness by emphasizing Presdident can declassify hlthe2b Sep 2019 #102
You are correct and I agree with you totally... Stuart G Sep 2019 #105
Interesting timeline... hlthe2b Sep 2019 #104
And after that.... kentuck Sep 2019 #107
Damn interesting that Trump made sure Gordon or Sanner wouldn't succeed Coats, but Maguire muriel_volestrangler Sep 2019 #114
Interesting take from counterintelligence expert, Asha Rangappa hlthe2b Sep 2019 #106
Josh Marshall (TPM) brings up several good points: hlthe2b Sep 2019 #109
"One former official said the communication was a phone call." DFW Sep 2019 #110
Praying for delicious irony that the call was on Dump's personal, unauthorized phone flibbitygiblets Sep 2019 #126
I'll take "I promise not to interfere when you occupy Ukraine" for $500, Alex. COLGATE4 Sep 2019 #111
2 Twitter posts that focus the issues involved bucolic_frolic Sep 2019 #116
After just listening to Schiff, I'm even more worried. According to him, the matter has pretty much Vinca Sep 2019 #118
You should find and watch last night's Lawrence O'Donnell panel. This law was written specifically hlthe2b Sep 2019 #121
NEW: The whistleblower is being represented by Andrew P. Bakaj, a former CIA officer. hlthe2b Sep 2019 #123
He got away with it under the FISA warrant in 2016 ffr Sep 2019 #134
Lawrence Tribe on the only legal remedy for recalcitrant IG and DNI: hlthe2b Sep 2019 #135
im sick and tired of the administration ignoring the law rdking647 Sep 2019 #137
We already knew about that about a month ago Farmer-Rick Sep 2019 #142
Remember Nixon monkey wrenched the peace talks to get elected. MasonDreams Sep 2019 #144
Link to TODAY'S NEW reporting: hlthe2b Sep 2019 #146
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»**Breaking** Trump's comm...»Reply #106