General Discussion

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)

28. We don't "all know he's guilty."

Sat Sep 28, 2019, 09:22 AM

Sep 2019

If we "all" knew that, he'd be gone by now.

Asuming that our view is shared by everyone else is a mistake too many people often make. Instead of assuming everyone thinks or should think the way we do, we need to figure out but they're thinking and what it will take to convince the otherwise

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Can you state in 1 sentence the specific collusion crime the Mueller Report found Trump committed? [View all] StarfishSaver Sep 2019 OP

And it provided the PATTERN blm Sep 2019 #1

That's easy, I can do it in 3 words. GreenEyedLefty Sep 2019 #2

Obstruction of Justice is a crime, but you did not describr what Trump did StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #4

Not describing in one sentence is not the problem. MrsCoffee Sep 2019 #57

I did't say it wasn't good enough StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #60

He welcomed foreign assistance to help him win the election. meadowlander Sep 2019 #73

That's conclusory StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #76

Not really. meadowlander Sep 2019 #83

Also M said they didn't pursue certain angles because "OLC" dawg day Sep 2019 #79

And the scope of the investigation (which we still haven't seen) meadowlander Sep 2019 #84

We haven't seen the Mueller report Botany Sep 2019 #3

That, too. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #5

true uponit7771 Sep 2019 #45

"They" have worked very hard to sell us that: Botany Sep 2019 #47

+1, dems should start working with the judicial branch to put people in jail now. The issue now uponit7771 Sep 2019 #50

Ever since Nixon and Reagan a part of the republican party/right wing folks have been .... Botany Sep 2019 #54

👍🏼, Nixon ended his term with a 24% approval rating it should have been - 4 uponit7771 Sep 2019 #55

They didn't find any collusion with conspiracy in the Mueller investigation... kentuck Sep 2019 #6

Russia? If you can hear me please look into Clintons e mail.? pwb Sep 2019 #7

But that's not, in and of itself, collusion StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #14

You speak for most people? pwb Sep 2019 #16

I'm not speaking for anyone StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #24

I'm this instance, they do. TidalWave46 Sep 2019 #26

"for most people" He literally asked them to acquire emails that are supposed to be secured. NCLefty Sep 2019 #85

That's neither collusion or conspiracy StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #86

"Most people" didn't hear anything except that he was not in any trouble. #barr NCLefty Sep 2019 #89

Obstructed justice at least ten times. Funtatlaguy Sep 2019 #8

That doesn't answer the question StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #10

I think the clearer "collusion" part is hidden within some of the redacted stuff involving Stone. BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #9

That could all be true. But if it takes this much explaining, no wonder people didn't jump to impeac StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #12

Exactly BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #18

Yes - but the public seems to be grasping this one StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #19

Yes because... BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #23

and therein lies the difficulty choie Sep 2019 #11

I don't think they framed it wrong. I don't think it was capable of being framed simply StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #13

"Dems focused on criminality and not Trump's unethical behavior" BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #20

Yes! StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #27

I think this issue of "ethics" really hit home to me BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #37

I think the big difference mercuryblues Sep 2019 #15

Yes StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #17

"the Ukraine scandal is happening in real time" BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #38

We all know he's guilty, Dems have been saying it since before the report was even delivered. hughee99 Sep 2019 #21

We don't "all know he's guilty." StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #28

By "we" I mean the people who are going to actually have a say hughee99 Sep 2019 #32

Many of those in that '"we" knew that it didn't matter what "we" thought if not enough "theys" StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #34

I was reading all along that the Mueller report wasn't going to be what people thought ismnotwasm Sep 2019 #22

Collusion isn't a legal term. Stop using right wing framing Arazi Sep 2019 #25

I didn't say it was a egal term. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #30

Yes you did. You asked for the specific "collusion crime" Arazi Sep 2019 #36

You're missing my point StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #48

I think I see your point on this Starfish FakeNoose Sep 2019 #29

Exactly! StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #31

Thank you! Six117 Sep 2019 #46

what i took from the Mueller report was........ Takket Sep 2019 #33

He conspired with a foreign hostile government (Russia) to rip off the 2016 election. onecaliberal Sep 2019 #35

The one thing Republicans do well mcar Sep 2019 #39

The Mueller Report specifically stated that collusion wasn't a legal term toddwv Sep 2019 #40

Mueller specifically let trump and his campaign off the hook for the trump tower meeting and like 20 Hoyt Sep 2019 #41

Don Jr and Papadopolis agreed to meet Russians to get dirt on Hillary from them Cicada Sep 2019 #42

It doesn't have to be stolen, the collusion was the meeting itself ... that was the crime. Whether uponit7771 Sep 2019 #44

It is legal to take legally obtained negative information Cicada Sep 2019 #59

True, the attempt at collusion with the foreign government is the issue not the thing of value ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #61

YES !! Trump solicited a foreign government to intervene in the 2016 election on TV and they did ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #43

Too easy to knock down StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #49

Direct coordination is not an element here, its the attempt itself is the crime even with Ukraine. uponit7771 Sep 2019 #51

Conspiracy requires coordination StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #56

True but Criminal Solicitation of crime of collusion or attempting to interfere in 16 election does uponit7771 Sep 2019 #62

When you're doing this much explaining - you're making my point StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #74

I think this address's the OP though, I wasn't attempting to be reductive. Trump at least the uponit7771 Sep 2019 #81

I hear you - but it takes several extra steps to explain why this is a crime StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #82

Correct, but that's not what happened. Trump asked Russia to interfere, Russia DID interfere ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #87

Saying you want someone to do something, them doing it and you accepting it StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #90

I agree it's not conspiracy and according to the crime of solicitation it doesn't have to be uponit7771 Sep 2019 #93

Not solicitation either, no matter what you think Wikipedia says StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #95

We agree, the "find" isn't the crime soliciting Russia to inject themselves in our 2016 election on uponit7771 Sep 2019 #96

Asking Russia to share info with the FBI isn't a crime either StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #98

We agree again, just asking Russia to share info with the FBI would be OK ... IF ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #100

The crime of solicitation is not based on whom s being asked StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #102

Asking a foreign nation to perform any negative action against a political opponent during election uponit7771 Sep 2019 #105

Maybe. But it's not StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #108

Got it 👍 uponit7771 Sep 2019 #110

But, don't misunderstand me ... StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #111

True, what Trump did might not be illegal but it looks impeachable the polling for Red Don sucks ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #112

No question it's impeachable StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #114

+1, my concern is the MAGA Cultist will impeach the next president cause she has ovaries or uponit7771 Sep 2019 #117

The Mueller Report's major flaw was this eissa Sep 2019 #52

They wrote summaries for the public but they were withheld by Barr, Barr needs to be impeached uponit7771 Sep 2019 #53

Not impeached. Tarred and feathered. 😡😈🤠 Funtatlaguy Sep 2019 #58

Is collusion even a crime in of itself? Kaleva Sep 2019 #63

No but soliciting collusion is and that's what Red Don did in 16 and a month or two ago. uponit7771 Sep 2019 #64

Could you cite me the US Code that covers that? Kaleva Sep 2019 #68

1084. ELEMENTS OF SOLICITATION (link) uponit7771 Sep 2019 #69

Thanks! I'm watching a baby right now and just can't do the research myself now. Kaleva Sep 2019 #70

That's easy cause he used the information post hack and knew he was using it. If he didn't intend .. uponit7771 Sep 2019 #71

If collusion isn't a crime, soliciting collusion can't be a crime StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #120

"If it's what's you say I love it" JonLP24 Sep 2019 #65

None because collusion isn't a crime, conspiracy is. Mueller stated they couldn't get hard evidence octoberlib Sep 2019 #66

Trump obstructed a criminal probe into allegations that his 2016 campaign+Russia coordinated. ArtTownsend Sep 2019 #67

You're talking about the second part of the report, not the first. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #75

Thank you for your patient, learned, disciplined, interpretations empedocles Sep 2019 #103

This thread was effectively over at reply #2 egduj Sep 2019 #72

"Asked Russia's Help" dawg day Sep 2019 #77

+1, that's text book Criminal Solicitation of collusion. uponit7771 Sep 2019 #88

No, it's not StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #91

We disagree, I'll agree with wikipedia explanation that says there doesn't need to be conspiracy uponit7771 Sep 2019 #92

Feel free to believe Wikipedia, if you like. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #94

What source do you think would be more reliable? Lets go with that? Trump literally asked two uponit7771 Sep 2019 #97

The statutes and case law control and legal reasoning and interpretation must be applied StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #99

I'm thinking the crime is asking them Russia to inject themselves into the election against his uponit7771 Sep 2019 #101

He didn't directly ask them to inject themselves. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #104

Ok, we're agreeing that Trump asked Russia to do some specific things ... can we agree that those uponit7771 Sep 2019 #106

The Ukraine scandal boils down to "not this sh*t again!" unblock Sep 2019 #78

The GOP uses extended time & lots of details to obfuscate like hell. Hence the Mueller Report's... Hekate Sep 2019 #80

Trump asked for and willingly received widespread illegal foreign help in his election. Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #107

Very unspecific,. broad accusation - doesn't tell anyone what he actually did StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #109

Trump solicited a foreign attack on our democracy which corrupted our elections. Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #113

Still conclusory. Not specific StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #115

Trump asked a foreign country for dirt on his opponent Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #116

He wasn't in office StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #118

Changing the RNC platform at the convention. Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #119

You'll have to continue this version of 20 Questions by yourself StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #121

Asked and answered. n/t Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #122