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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)

95. Not solicitation either, no matter what you think Wikipedia says

Sun Sep 29, 2019, 11:28 AM

Sep 2019

Trump didn't specifically solicit Russia to commit a crime. He said "Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

That's not soliciting a crime in a legal sense since "finding" emails is not, ipso facto, a crime. moreover, Trump didn't ask, solicit, or direct them to do it. He just said if they did it the press would like it. That will not sustain a solicitation charge.

I'm a lawyer and law professor who taught criminal law. This is my wheelhouse. Wikipedia is not a reliable source on legal doctrine. You're free, of course to believe whatever you want. But Wikipedia references can't supplant my years of legal training and experience.

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Can you state in 1 sentence the specific collusion crime the Mueller Report found Trump committed? [View all] StarfishSaver Sep 2019 OP

And it provided the PATTERN blm Sep 2019 #1

That's easy, I can do it in 3 words. GreenEyedLefty Sep 2019 #2

Obstruction of Justice is a crime, but you did not describr what Trump did StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #4

Not describing in one sentence is not the problem. MrsCoffee Sep 2019 #57

I did't say it wasn't good enough StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #60

He welcomed foreign assistance to help him win the election. meadowlander Sep 2019 #73

That's conclusory StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #76

Not really. meadowlander Sep 2019 #83

Also M said they didn't pursue certain angles because "OLC" dawg day Sep 2019 #79

And the scope of the investigation (which we still haven't seen) meadowlander Sep 2019 #84

We haven't seen the Mueller report Botany Sep 2019 #3

That, too. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #5

true uponit7771 Sep 2019 #45

"They" have worked very hard to sell us that: Botany Sep 2019 #47

+1, dems should start working with the judicial branch to put people in jail now. The issue now uponit7771 Sep 2019 #50

Ever since Nixon and Reagan a part of the republican party/right wing folks have been .... Botany Sep 2019 #54

👍🏼, Nixon ended his term with a 24% approval rating it should have been - 4 uponit7771 Sep 2019 #55

They didn't find any collusion with conspiracy in the Mueller investigation... kentuck Sep 2019 #6

Russia? If you can hear me please look into Clintons e mail.? pwb Sep 2019 #7

But that's not, in and of itself, collusion StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #14

You speak for most people? pwb Sep 2019 #16

I'm not speaking for anyone StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #24

I'm this instance, they do. TidalWave46 Sep 2019 #26

"for most people" He literally asked them to acquire emails that are supposed to be secured. NCLefty Sep 2019 #85

That's neither collusion or conspiracy StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #86

"Most people" didn't hear anything except that he was not in any trouble. #barr NCLefty Sep 2019 #89

Obstructed justice at least ten times. Funtatlaguy Sep 2019 #8

That doesn't answer the question StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #10

I think the clearer "collusion" part is hidden within some of the redacted stuff involving Stone. BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #9

That could all be true. But if it takes this much explaining, no wonder people didn't jump to impeac StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #12

Exactly BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #18

Yes - but the public seems to be grasping this one StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #19

Yes because... BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #23

and therein lies the difficulty choie Sep 2019 #11

I don't think they framed it wrong. I don't think it was capable of being framed simply StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #13

"Dems focused on criminality and not Trump's unethical behavior" BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #20

Yes! StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #27

I think this issue of "ethics" really hit home to me BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #37

I think the big difference mercuryblues Sep 2019 #15

Yes StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #17

"the Ukraine scandal is happening in real time" BumRushDaShow Sep 2019 #38

We all know he's guilty, Dems have been saying it since before the report was even delivered. hughee99 Sep 2019 #21

We don't "all know he's guilty." StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #28

By "we" I mean the people who are going to actually have a say hughee99 Sep 2019 #32

Many of those in that '"we" knew that it didn't matter what "we" thought if not enough "theys" StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #34

I was reading all along that the Mueller report wasn't going to be what people thought ismnotwasm Sep 2019 #22

Collusion isn't a legal term. Stop using right wing framing Arazi Sep 2019 #25

I didn't say it was a egal term. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #30

Yes you did. You asked for the specific "collusion crime" Arazi Sep 2019 #36

You're missing my point StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #48

I think I see your point on this Starfish FakeNoose Sep 2019 #29

Exactly! StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #31

Thank you! Six117 Sep 2019 #46

what i took from the Mueller report was........ Takket Sep 2019 #33

He conspired with a foreign hostile government (Russia) to rip off the 2016 election. onecaliberal Sep 2019 #35

The one thing Republicans do well mcar Sep 2019 #39

The Mueller Report specifically stated that collusion wasn't a legal term toddwv Sep 2019 #40

Mueller specifically let trump and his campaign off the hook for the trump tower meeting and like 20 Hoyt Sep 2019 #41

Don Jr and Papadopolis agreed to meet Russians to get dirt on Hillary from them Cicada Sep 2019 #42

It doesn't have to be stolen, the collusion was the meeting itself ... that was the crime. Whether uponit7771 Sep 2019 #44

It is legal to take legally obtained negative information Cicada Sep 2019 #59

True, the attempt at collusion with the foreign government is the issue not the thing of value ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #61

YES !! Trump solicited a foreign government to intervene in the 2016 election on TV and they did ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #43

Too easy to knock down StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #49

Direct coordination is not an element here, its the attempt itself is the crime even with Ukraine. uponit7771 Sep 2019 #51

Conspiracy requires coordination StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #56

True but Criminal Solicitation of crime of collusion or attempting to interfere in 16 election does uponit7771 Sep 2019 #62

When you're doing this much explaining - you're making my point StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #74

I think this address's the OP though, I wasn't attempting to be reductive. Trump at least the uponit7771 Sep 2019 #81

I hear you - but it takes several extra steps to explain why this is a crime StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #82

Correct, but that's not what happened. Trump asked Russia to interfere, Russia DID interfere ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #87

Saying you want someone to do something, them doing it and you accepting it StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #90

I agree it's not conspiracy and according to the crime of solicitation it doesn't have to be uponit7771 Sep 2019 #93

Not solicitation either, no matter what you think Wikipedia says StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #95

We agree, the "find" isn't the crime soliciting Russia to inject themselves in our 2016 election on uponit7771 Sep 2019 #96

Asking Russia to share info with the FBI isn't a crime either StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #98

We agree again, just asking Russia to share info with the FBI would be OK ... IF ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #100

The crime of solicitation is not based on whom s being asked StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #102

Asking a foreign nation to perform any negative action against a political opponent during election uponit7771 Sep 2019 #105

Maybe. But it's not StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #108

Got it 👍 uponit7771 Sep 2019 #110

But, don't misunderstand me ... StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #111

True, what Trump did might not be illegal but it looks impeachable the polling for Red Don sucks ... uponit7771 Sep 2019 #112

No question it's impeachable StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #114

+1, my concern is the MAGA Cultist will impeach the next president cause she has ovaries or uponit7771 Sep 2019 #117

The Mueller Report's major flaw was this eissa Sep 2019 #52

They wrote summaries for the public but they were withheld by Barr, Barr needs to be impeached uponit7771 Sep 2019 #53

Not impeached. Tarred and feathered. 😡😈🤠 Funtatlaguy Sep 2019 #58

Is collusion even a crime in of itself? Kaleva Sep 2019 #63

No but soliciting collusion is and that's what Red Don did in 16 and a month or two ago. uponit7771 Sep 2019 #64

Could you cite me the US Code that covers that? Kaleva Sep 2019 #68

1084. ELEMENTS OF SOLICITATION (link) uponit7771 Sep 2019 #69

Thanks! I'm watching a baby right now and just can't do the research myself now. Kaleva Sep 2019 #70

That's easy cause he used the information post hack and knew he was using it. If he didn't intend .. uponit7771 Sep 2019 #71

If collusion isn't a crime, soliciting collusion can't be a crime StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #120

"If it's what's you say I love it" JonLP24 Sep 2019 #65

None because collusion isn't a crime, conspiracy is. Mueller stated they couldn't get hard evidence octoberlib Sep 2019 #66

Trump obstructed a criminal probe into allegations that his 2016 campaign+Russia coordinated. ArtTownsend Sep 2019 #67

You're talking about the second part of the report, not the first. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #75

Thank you for your patient, learned, disciplined, interpretations empedocles Sep 2019 #103

This thread was effectively over at reply #2 egduj Sep 2019 #72

"Asked Russia's Help" dawg day Sep 2019 #77

+1, that's text book Criminal Solicitation of collusion. uponit7771 Sep 2019 #88

No, it's not StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #91

We disagree, I'll agree with wikipedia explanation that says there doesn't need to be conspiracy uponit7771 Sep 2019 #92

Feel free to believe Wikipedia, if you like. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #94

What source do you think would be more reliable? Lets go with that? Trump literally asked two uponit7771 Sep 2019 #97

The statutes and case law control and legal reasoning and interpretation must be applied StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #99

I'm thinking the crime is asking them Russia to inject themselves into the election against his uponit7771 Sep 2019 #101

He didn't directly ask them to inject themselves. StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #104

Ok, we're agreeing that Trump asked Russia to do some specific things ... can we agree that those uponit7771 Sep 2019 #106

The Ukraine scandal boils down to "not this sh*t again!" unblock Sep 2019 #78

The GOP uses extended time & lots of details to obfuscate like hell. Hence the Mueller Report's... Hekate Sep 2019 #80

Trump asked for and willingly received widespread illegal foreign help in his election. Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #107

Very unspecific,. broad accusation - doesn't tell anyone what he actually did StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #109

Trump solicited a foreign attack on our democracy which corrupted our elections. Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #113

Still conclusory. Not specific StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #115

Trump asked a foreign country for dirt on his opponent Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #116

He wasn't in office StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #118

Changing the RNC platform at the convention. Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #119

You'll have to continue this version of 20 Questions by yourself StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #121

Asked and answered. n/t Qutzupalotl Sep 2019 #122