General Discussion

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)

176. Yes and that was the post I asked about.........

Tue Dec 13, 2011, 02:40 PM

Dec 2011

What do you do before those actions? What do you do after? Do you favor taking the focus off of the economic elite and putting it back on their puppets in the political power structure? There were HUGE rallies and demonstrations against the Iraqi war and they didn't do ANYTHING to even change the DISCUSSION about our invasion of Iraq. Unlike the tactics of occupation which in two and a half months has actually changed the parameters of the discussion about economic injustice in this country.

Large scale demonstrations ARE a tactic it's true, but they can't be the ONLY tactic. BECAUSE THEY DON'T WORK WITHOUT COMPLEMENTARY TACTICS! Tactics like strikes, occupations, and unity operations with the representatives of the working class like the unions. Because those tactics keep the focus on the RULERS in this dictatorship of capital and NOT the flunkies and toadies OF those rulers. You can't hurt the capitalists with demonstrations. You can only hurt them by getting into their pocketbooks with strikes and disruption of their profit chain.

One thing that you're missing is that these tactics are MATURE tactics in the class struggle being tried out in a country with an embryonic class consciousness. As I've said OFTEN anytime these tactics are brought up, it doesn't matter at this stage whether they are totally successful and effective or not. These are warning shots across the bow of the 1% AND they're practice runs for futher actions in the future. Even partial success is good practice. Because unless the capitalist rulers back off, this is just the beginning. Do you think the capitalist rulers will back off?

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Occupy's tactics are hurting their message and the left [View all] MellowDem Dec 2011 OP

People said that about hippies in the 60's The Straight Story Dec 2011 #1

Hippies in the 60s... MellowDem Dec 2011 #12

I don't know...I dig the Diggers (look them up) deutsey Dec 2011 #22

Attributing cultural or technological advances... MellowDem Dec 2011 #39

But thankfully there have been people's movements that do represent and advance those views deutsey Dec 2011 #54

by hippies I think he means unionworks Dec 2011 #250

And the 60's culminated with Richard Nixon's election. That was the beginning pnwmom Dec 2011 #16

COINTELPRO, political assassinations, violent police crackdowns helped n/t deutsey Dec 2011 #23

I disagree hootinholler Dec 2011 #43

No. Post Kennedy assassination there was the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Medicare, Medicaid TheWraith Dec 2011 #47

True, but these advances also intensified a reaction deutsey Dec 2011 #55

All true... hootinholler Dec 2011 #56

Nixon was forced to sign the Clean Water Act because the Democrats in Congress tabasco Dec 2011 #69

At least Nixon understood economics better than today's pols & how it related to national security. ieoeja Dec 2011 #90

He still didn't have to sign it. We have the process for a purpose. Make them do it. TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #168

LOL. tabasco Dec 2011 #261

Yes, he did. Nobody issues a veto they know will be overridden just for shits and giggles. TheWraith Dec 2011 #262

Horseshit, we are talking the Constitution and life and liberty here. TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #277

inertia. ret5hd Dec 2011 #224

The only progressive president I can remember nineteen50 Dec 2011 #207

See post# 69 Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #242

Ummm, what tactics? onlyadream Dec 2011 #2

Blocking the ports... MellowDem Dec 2011 #20

Oops... I haven't been paying attention. Ty , nt onlyadream Dec 2011 #74

You are drinking the Kool-Aid, the Fox and multinational Kool-Aid. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #153

^^what JD said ~nt 99th_Monkey Dec 2011 #178

Someone on my Facebook just commented on the Port shutdowns in Oregon Beavker Dec 2011 #192

I wonder what fox would have said about nineteen50 Dec 2011 #209

Precisely. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #233

+1 Beavker Dec 2011 #280

+2 eom tledford Dec 2011 #228

With all respect, you are blubbering. First of all OWS has a 56% popularity. rhett o rick Dec 2011 #194

Something like knitting tea cozies for democracy... MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #234

Can you cite a source fo rthe 56% popularity? I have read that support has dropped in recent days BoWanZi Dec 2011 #238

Opposition grows to Occupy's port shutdown plan pintobean Dec 2011 #3

Occupy stated intention is NOT JUST the economic divide nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #13

I know what's in my contract. pintobean Dec 2011 #36

Then why would you assume that they'd oppenly say nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #48

I don't need to read between the lines pintobean Dec 2011 #51

I have... the bubble you are living in nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #52

Yeah pintobean Dec 2011 #57

Which pols, which set of pols are you going to use? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #58

Taking the pulse of the average Joe in 1930 UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2011 #73

That is really uncalled for. ohheckyeah Dec 2011 #106

I don't see how the two are related. pintobean Dec 2011 #120

The cheap camera and notebook comment was nothing ohheckyeah Dec 2011 #127

That's how she has described them. pintobean Dec 2011 #135

LOL....like you weren't ohheckyeah Dec 2011 #226

I didn't claim otherwise. pintobean Dec 2011 #231

I hope you read the update on kit nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #269

I do not despise the occupiers pintobean Dec 2011 #273

I sure could not tell from your posts nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #274

You could if you wanted to. pintobean Dec 2011 #275

Maybe you are writing different posts nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #279

Consider the photos of what police did to Scott Olsen, for example. Occulus Dec 2011 #267

What did I reveal? pintobean Dec 2011 #272

By the way nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #128

And they are the ones who will lose their homes and do nothing. aquart Dec 2011 #60

+1 dionysus Dec 2011 #139

What methods do you think we should use to draw the attention of the busy public JDPriestly Dec 2011 #163

I have met the type of person you speak of and sadly they are union members who do not understand... unapatriciated Dec 2011 #220

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #195

It's nothing more than an article pintobean Dec 2011 #219

I'm not sure which unions see this as disruptive or unnecessary but.... unapatriciated Dec 2011 #214

What should they do? HeyHeymymy Dec 2011 #4

"Bank transfer day" was awesome. More like that please! n/t think Dec 2011 #21

Honestly? MellowDem Dec 2011 #24

My politically challenged coworker main comments HeyHeymymy Dec 2011 #34

You mean the trash that was not trash nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #49

I visited Occupy LA. It was clean. There were port-a-potties. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #164

Thank you for your concern. aquart Dec 2011 #62

This nation is not conservative. ProfessionalLeftist Dec 2011 #71

Sorry, but no. You should read some polls about political self-identity. TheWraith Dec 2011 #263

It's not a political moverment..... Jello Biafra Dec 2011 #101

You are poorly informed about the Occupy Movement Remember Me Dec 2011 #199

+10000000000000000000000000 eom tledford Dec 2011 #232

"There is no real organization to Occupy yet" Occulus Dec 2011 #270

No, they aren't izquierdista Dec 2011 #5

+1 The more OWS continues developing and (importantly) acting out a counter-narrative deutsey Dec 2011 #15

People aren't getting OWS... MellowDem Dec 2011 #27

I find no problem with how OWS is behaving or trying to shraby Dec 2011 #37

What we on the left think... MellowDem Dec 2011 #41

For 50+ years the reactionary right shoved the narrative toward their side... Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #46

Amen to that Aerows Dec 2011 #78

two things nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #50

+1 Aerows Dec 2011 #82

It's not just conservative Remember Me Dec 2011 #200

"Thank Gid for the internet." Occulus Dec 2011 #271

Which polls? Must be ones that Grover Norquist makes up' wilsonbooks Dec 2011 #258

MellowDem, have you actually visited an Occupy site? JDPriestly Dec 2011 #166

Occupy is what it is pscot Dec 2011 #208

Would that be more amateurish than what was done up to that point? nineteen50 Dec 2011 #212

FAIL. backscatter712 Dec 2011 #6

Lame pintobean Dec 2011 #8

Let me offer as much evidence as you did: xchrom Dec 2011 #7

I added a link. nt MellowDem Dec 2011 #29

Your link doesn't support your opinions. LooseWilly Dec 2011 #245

We can't expect OWS to do everything on their own arcane1 Dec 2011 #9

Disagree quinnox Dec 2011 #10

The majority of Americans are not on the left... MellowDem Dec 2011 #31

the numbers are 70% for single payer/real public option, 70% for Medicare and Social Security MisterP Dec 2011 #45

No it isn't Aerows Dec 2011 #84

This nasty OP has shown me that I will survive the jurors. Peace. WingDinger Dec 2011 #11

What was nasty about it? nt. MellowDem Dec 2011 #32

What tactics? I hope they go even further than shutting down ports, if that was what you were sadge goddess Dec 2011 #14

You can't shut down the country... MellowDem Dec 2011 #35

Welcome to DU Aerows Dec 2011 #85

I totally agree with shutting down the country. glowing Dec 2011 #197

Your "concern" is noted. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #17

Exactly, Odin2005 n/t Aerows Dec 2011 #88

What tactics? Toucano Dec 2011 #18

Poppycock Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #19

Sigh. It's not at all "pretty indisputable" Matariki Dec 2011 #25

I was at the port of Tacoma Generic Other Dec 2011 #65

So go do it "right"... SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #26

Indeed! Aerows Dec 2011 #89

And what tactic is that? Would they even be noticed without having "occupied"? mmonk Dec 2011 #28

When I click my ruby slippers together, there eventually appears a magical hide thread function... Fire Walk With Me Dec 2011 #30

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #33

The Tea Party now has more support... MellowDem Dec 2011 #38

That's rich hootinholler Dec 2011 #44

Bingo! kenfrequed Dec 2011 #87

The real story is in the cross tabs hootinholler Dec 2011 #109

The problem with these "self identification" polls is that group socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #167

Hammer meet nail head n/t Aerows Dec 2011 #91

That's actually in line... MellowDem Dec 2011 #160

But the states in which the shut-up-the-ports movement took place JDPriestly Dec 2011 #171

that's bullshit. Americans are quite liberal -- they just don't call themselves that Remember Me Dec 2011 #202

The problem I have with Occupy Mosaic Dec 2011 #40

It moved on from Adbusters a while ago nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #63

Seriously Nadin... Bragi Dec 2011 #75

Sometimes you have to plow on Aerows Dec 2011 #93

True, but you can also change tactics Bragi Dec 2011 #96

Our nation is too polarized Aerows Dec 2011 #98

No disagreement on that Bragi Dec 2011 #99

" However, like most people" Aerows Dec 2011 #103

Polls backs up my point Bragi Dec 2011 #108

Okay Aerows Dec 2011 #114

My mistake Bragi Dec 2011 #124

We are Aerows Dec 2011 #126

Who said anything about "giving up" Bragi Dec 2011 #134

Getting distinctly political Aerows Dec 2011 #145

"Occupy" started with tents. It is now occupying a lot more. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #175

Don't tell that to me nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #112

Regardless Aerows Dec 2011 #116

Polls go up, they go down nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #121

Yeah, like right after Day 1 nt Remember Me Dec 2011 #203

If you want to find an anarchistic movement, look to the Chicago School of Economics, JDPriestly Dec 2011 #172

Anarcho-syndicalism Mosaic Dec 2011 #253

I am more familiar with Chomsky's work in linguistics than with his work in politics. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #259

Maybe, maybe not MFrohike Dec 2011 #42

Exactly, and it's not just about Occupy... JHB Dec 2011 #100

Exactly what 'left' do you think OWS is hurting? As far as I'm concerned, the coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #53

if you don't like it, get down to the GAs and make you suggestions dana_b Dec 2011 #59

What if the people who dominate the GA's are the problem? /nt Bragi Dec 2011 #79

And what if people not dominating the GA's are the problem? Aerows Dec 2011 #94

Oh, you mean like all the Occupiers? Remember Me Dec 2011 #205

There is no left in the US. David__77 Dec 2011 #61

LEFT??? If you don't like these types of tactics socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #64

Nonsense Bragi Dec 2011 #81

You are correct, I'll be more specific nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #155

Yes this is what militant labor does. And as an historian socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #170

Yup nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #181

You guys are thrilling me Remember Me Dec 2011 #206

I love DU3 Union Scribe Dec 2011 #66

If Fox news doesn't support it then the gullible masses won't Rosa Luxemburg Dec 2011 #67

So, OWS is supposed to be watching the polls and steering its actions accordingly... AntiFascist Dec 2011 #68

No, the whole world is NOT watching Bragi Dec 2011 #83

You aren't Aerows Dec 2011 #95

This is what is sad or funny nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #150

Very good points. The corporate media presstitutes are deliberately minimizing Occupy. backscatter712 Dec 2011 #158

Thanks, Nadin JDPriestly Dec 2011 #177

Well, you obviously aren't watching because the tactics are in fact evolving. AntiFascist Dec 2011 #189

good point marions ghost Dec 2011 #169

Got anything more recent than a month-old poll to indicate OWS losing support? MilesColtrane Dec 2011 #70

Just this... Bragi Dec 2011 #92

"The port shutdown was an over-reaching bust." - I have to take issue with that, as coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #115

+1 The 1% and their mouthpieces are out in force and are desperate to destroy the Occupy movement. Zorra Dec 2011 #122

Yes, that must be it! Bragi Dec 2011 #125

You seem to want it to fail Aerows Dec 2011 #131

Yes, it does seem that way. The question arises: Zorra Dec 2011 #147

that's rather presumptuous. it seems to me, that anyone who doesn't agree 100% with OWS tactics here dionysus Dec 2011 #165

I concur with your comments. MADem Dec 2011 #183

+1 This exactly nt Veruca Salt Dec 2011 #198

Six of one, half a dozen of the other... LanternWaste Dec 2011 #157

You wrote: Bragi Dec 2011 #129

It's not an assumption that is difficult to arrive at Aerows Dec 2011 #133

How could I be clearer? Bragi Dec 2011 #137

Any suggestions? Aerows Dec 2011 #140

LOL! Relabeling, are we? Start your own "99% Movement". Zorra Dec 2011 #148

Yes, I would "rebrand" it if I could Bragi Dec 2011 #149

I think, for the most part, Remember Me Dec 2011 #213

Fair point Bragi Dec 2011 #218

Yes. The "tactic" was used to popularize the concept. It worked for a bit, then became stale. MADem Dec 2011 #255

In retrospect, my comment about "your agenda" does strike me as coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #136

Thanks for that! Bragi Dec 2011 #138

CU is pretty awesome :) Aerows Dec 2011 #142

let's see if they can pull it off. you need tens of millions of people to pull off a general strike, dionysus Dec 2011 #159

I think it is closer than we dared dream of Aerows Dec 2011 #179

time will tell, let's see. dionysus Dec 2011 #188

People are pissed and it isn't going away because 'it doesn't poll well'. Edweird Dec 2011 #72

+1 n/t Aerows Dec 2011 #77

People are always going to complain about protestors Aerows Dec 2011 #76

The MSM will always spin protests for their advantage randr Dec 2011 #80

The demands are there nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #152

Baloney. Orsino Dec 2011 #86

So show us all how to do it better. Gold Metal Flake Dec 2011 #97

Here's a suggestion Bragi Dec 2011 #105

These are excellent ideas. Are you anywhere near an Occupy encampment? coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #118

I was addressing the OP, but since you popped into the convo... Gold Metal Flake Dec 2011 #119

Great. Don't disagree at all.......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #146

Here's a suggestion from me Bragi Dec 2011 #151

Yes and that was the post I asked about......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #176

No, I don't think the rulers will back off Bragi Dec 2011 #186

What you understand as political nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #210

Well as nadin has said numerous times, Occupy seems to be able socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #266

I thought OWS was pretty much over? snooper2 Dec 2011 #102

How many times has Bill O'Reilly proclaimed the death of the Occupy movement now? backscatter712 Dec 2011 #104

I didn't hear anything about it snooper2 Dec 2011 #107

Here's another story. Multiple ports got shut down. It was awesome! backscatter712 Dec 2011 #110

This isn't a popularity contest - it's about doing what's right - and changing the world slay Dec 2011 #111

Taking Root in Unlikely Soil, Occupy Florida Gains Momentum xchrom Dec 2011 #113

Occupy goes to Florida in December?...nt SidDithers Dec 2011 #141

OMG - I think that's my favorite Occupy sign of all time Remember Me Dec 2011 #215

PPP is a Third Way polling company owned by a 1% businessman. nt Zorra Dec 2011 #117

+1 slay Dec 2011 #161

+1,,, I wish people would do a little research on the golddigger Dec 2011 #243

I love some of DU3's new features. Very revealing... nt stillwaiting Dec 2011 #123

incredible amount of BS spanone Dec 2011 #130

sure fascisthunter Dec 2011 #132

The Occupy Movement has a great message boxman15 Dec 2011 #143

Notice that no labor leader nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #154

I hope you'll read the rest of this thread Remember Me Dec 2011 #216

I'm appalled by the media's coverage of the OWS movement. boxman15 Dec 2011 #256

Thank you for your concern. KamaAina Dec 2011 #144

i don't know about hurting their message or, not, but reading this thread... if you don't think dionysus Dec 2011 #156

Yes, I've read through the entire thread, and I get that sense as well. Either support OWS 100% - SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #173

ironically, that kind of stuff is pretty counter productive to growing the movement, isn't it? dionysus Dec 2011 #174

Yes, yes it is. SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #182

Want to see something amusing? pintobean Dec 2011 #185

Yep, just caught that. I normally don't check to see who has reccd a thread, SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #254

OWS is fine by me. NT Vincardog Dec 2011 #162

What a steaming pile of horseshit (n/t) CrawlingChaos Dec 2011 #180

Bullpuckey! ananda Dec 2011 #184

Nonsense marions ghost Dec 2011 #187

Give me a gung ho and radicalized 30% over any tepid and conflicted majority, no matter how large. TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #190

Those concern trolls were saying the same thing during the Civil Rights Movement alp227 Dec 2011 #191

Stop pussy-footing JEB Dec 2011 #193

What happened to the unrec feature. This OP is hogwash. nm rhett o rick Dec 2011 #196

Thankfully it's dead. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #201

Ah, yes, but we still have the rec feature pintobean Dec 2011 #211

what a shock. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #223

um yeah..I know what ya mean.. Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #237

Don't agree? Then it must be hogwash. randome Dec 2011 #204

OWS popularity seems pretty good to me. blackspade Dec 2011 #217

Unrec CJCRANE Dec 2011 #221

Occupying public parks is exactly what put OWS on the map and in play. Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #222

That's not important..What great movement was EVER popular in its early days? Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #225

Damn Hippies!!!! bvar22 Dec 2011 #227

Hmmmm. bvar22 Dec 2011 #229

No. Iggo Dec 2011 #230

Bullshit! karenbe111 Dec 2011 #235

It does make you wonder! Wind Dancer Dec 2011 #236

It's time to "Occupy" the ballot box. jaysunb Dec 2011 #239

the media's portrayal of them have made them less popular with the American people SemperEadem Dec 2011 #240

Bullshit! Rightwing, teabagger and WS propaganda poll. I can't believe people would... golddigger Dec 2011 #241

Archaeology issue Jan/Feb2012 recalls press from 1900s-sounds EXACTLY LIKE YOU StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #244

I doubt it. ozone_man Dec 2011 #246

Call the Waambulance n/t unionworks Dec 2011 #247

Ha! You hope .... Bryn Dec 2011 #248

Actually, that cartoon shows exactly what is wrong with OWS. randome Dec 2011 #249

Not directed at anyone here.... I was talking about 'idiots' who are Bryn Dec 2011 #257

Then I apologize about the 'idiots' part of my response. randome Dec 2011 #260

AMEN BROTHER (OR SISTER) johncoby2 Dec 2011 #251

I dsiagree. the movement is growing. Support is growing. robinlynne Dec 2011 #252

IT TAKES A PILLAGE .... on Amy Goodman this morning... IcyPeas Dec 2011 #264

the idiots that are part of the 99% OccupyIdiots Dec 2011 #265

The Occupy movement has been successful because they represent the 99%. A few former tea partiers, applegrove Dec 2011 #268

bullshit. nt bowens43 Dec 2011 #276

With all due respect Terry in Austin Dec 2011 #278