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VOX

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14. Yes, a gun is a very efficient tool. It gives its owner the power to take many lives in mere moments

Mon Dec 30, 2019, 08:27 PM

Dec 2019

Take any mass shooting, from the University of Texas in 1966 to Las Vegas in 2017 to Christchurch NZ this year. I defy anyone to match those appalling body counts with a knife or hammer.

Guns are impersonal— killing someone with a firearm takes little effort, but killing with a knife or blunt instrument involves getting in close to one’s victim, feeling their breath, hearing their screams, getting soaked with their blood, and possibly struggling to “finish the job.”

I’m fine with people owning a handgun or shotgun for home defense. But should EVERY American carry on their person a tool that grants them the power to deal swift death in large numbers? Common sense informs the answer: a resounding NO.

It’s way past time for some sensible gun safety laws. Of course no law will stop mass shootings, but if improved background checks (which should be mandatory if one wishes to own a tool designed specifically to take lives), and closing the loopholes in gun-show sales, maybe, just maybe, some lives would be spared. It’s worth a try, at the very least.

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This time the right guy had a gun, and stopped more carnage. [View all] Archae Dec 2019 OP

that's how the NRA thrives Skittles Dec 2019 #1

I, and the guy who took down the kook are not "gun humpers." Archae Dec 2019 #2

I sent the clip to a friend in Australia Skittles Dec 2019 #6

i'm with you CatWoman Dec 2019 #51

thanks to the NRA, guns are everywhere Skittles Dec 2019 #102

That's completely accurate. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jan 2020 #132

Hysterics? JonLP24 Dec 2019 #12

Yes, a gun is a very efficient tool. It gives its owner the power to take many lives in mere moments VOX Dec 2019 #14

my niece was killed with a handgun by her stepgrandfather. His gun was kept loaded in a drawer CTyankee Dec 2019 #76

So very sorry. If I had my way, I'd melt every firearm down and use the steel for something positive VOX Jan 2020 #147

tobacco was never sacralized the way guns were. It was nasty and made you smell bad and CTyankee Jan 2020 #149

While it hasn't occurred in my family, I do think about the "ripple effect" each gun death brings. VOX Jan 2020 #150

Thanks for "listening." You summed it up well: we have whole town traumatized by gun CTyankee Jan 2020 #151

Comparing a hammer to a gun is way the hell out there rockfordfile Dec 2019 #37

It's a standard Gunner metaphor. maxsolomon Dec 2019 #80

Comparing a hammer to a gun proves you are clueless. nt USALiberal Dec 2019 #61

a gun is a tool? Brainstormy Jan 2020 #226

+++++++++++ HAB911 Dec 2019 #63

The good guy snowybirdie Dec 2019 #3

It reinforces the need for a ban on high capacity weapons, imo. Chemisse Dec 2019 #66

Autos aren't used in "the carnage"..Automatic weapons are very highly regulated. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #148

Thanks for clarifying snowybirdie Jan 2020 #165

It makes a huge difference....100 rds/minute compared to 600-900 rds/min AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #220

but somehow, the Las Vegas shooter got off over 1000 rounds stopdiggin Jan 2020 #176

That freak in Vegas was using a bump stock..it's why they are illegal now. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #216

Defensive gun uses like this help dispel the idea that concealed carriers are all wannabe Zimmermans Jake Stern Dec 2019 #4

Bad guys with a gun... ExciteBike66 Dec 2019 #56

What it means is that snort Dec 2019 #5

He was not there to slaughter people Pompoy Dec 2019 #105

In this case, the shooter was under observation because he was acting so weird. Hoyt Dec 2019 #7

That's silly...what if the dirtbag had been observed by unarmed observers... AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #117

He was also known to the church as an issue. Rather than waiting for him to shoot, Hoyt Jan 2020 #119

What would you do...."bean" him(the bad guy) in the head? AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #120

The guard was watching a known problem, but didn't have guts/smarts Hoyt Jan 2020 #123

The freak had a shotgun....hidden under a trenchcoat. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #130

They were observing him before, because he had been a problem before. Hoyt Jan 2020 #131

Keep tryin'....you'll lock a door and bean someone....Mr. Wilson is a hero. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #133

Read these articles. Your boy Wilson and other "guards" knew he was up to Hoyt Jan 2020 #134

Exactly as I said above...so? Also as I said above...you aren't good at this. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #135

Wilson screwed up because he only had guts to position Hoyt Jan 2020 #136

That's hystarically funny crap right there.... AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #137

If he'd had guts, he'd have asked they guy to come outside and Hoyt Jan 2020 #138

Keep running with that....Mr.Wilson is a National Hero...he's gaining Sully status AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #139

Discussionist and gun websites maybe, not most places now that the truth is Hoyt Jan 2020 #140

Hang on that thin thead dude...that and beans will get you... AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #143

Wow!!!! dware Jan 2020 #153

You must be a gunner. Figures. Hoyt Jan 2020 #157

That's your answer to my post? dware Jan 2020 #158

Actually, there is no federal law prohibiting carrying a gun in CVs. Some states might not Hoyt Jan 2020 #160

I never once applauded this shooting, dware Jan 2020 #161

No matter how you look at it a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy ... spin Jan 2020 #202

Nope. Should have grabbed him before he opened fire. Guy had caused problems before, wearing trench Hoyt Jan 2020 #204

So it is illegal to wear a wig and a fake mustache? ... spin Jan 2020 #210

Sorry, I disagree. If you are going to play "guard/security," be prepared to act when there Hoyt Jan 2020 #211

Go ahead. Jump on someone wearing a wig and a fake mustache. ... spin Jan 2020 #212

Didn't have to beat the crap out of him; but, if they had a few lives would have been saved. Hoyt Jan 2020 #213

I will definitely agree there were different options with the Travon Martin case. ... spin Jan 2020 #214

Source link....this should be interesting. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #219

Gave you a link earlier. Guess you forgot it already. You NRA gunner hero should have acted sooner. Hoyt Jan 2020 #221

Keep trying....this in no way backs your claim... AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #222

A hero to gun-toters. The other 90+% of population, not so much. Hoyt Jan 2020 #223

He's a hero to many of the church goers that might have been killed AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #224

Give it up. dware Jan 2020 #231

It's not "seems".....he absolutly hates us..infringes on his admitted past profession. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #233

Admitted past profession? dware Jan 2020 #234

Sure can... AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #235

Wow!!!! dware Jan 2020 #238

Its good that they were white Liberalhammer Dec 2019 #8

One of the victims was a black man. cwydro Dec 2019 #19

That hurt my heart to read....the post you replied to. I guess agenda trumps facts. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #118

Still doesn't address the desperation of the right in trying to minimize the fact Thomas Hurt Dec 2019 #9

Mass shootings will be further normalized by a metric of "bystanders killed until GGWG kills BGWG." VOX Dec 2019 #10

The first guy killed was a good guy with gun that was in the process of drawing his pistol which braddy Dec 2019 #11

That you dont see the issue angrychair Dec 2019 #13

Guns always end or force the end of the mass murder, and this reaction looked just like my church braddy Dec 2019 #16

Only the men are armed? cwydro Dec 2019 #20

I have never heared anyone in the church brag about being armed, and I haven't noticed any women braddy Dec 2019 #24

Oh, so you know because everyone is wearing one on their hip? cwydro Dec 2019 #30

Your conclusions are weird and appear hostile, I did try to answer you about my church but now you braddy Dec 2019 #31

Why would you want to go to a church where everyone is armed? panader0 Dec 2019 #52

I have never been to or heard of a church where "everyone is armed", that sounds mandatory. braddy Dec 2019 #75

You said no one bragged about it, so I wondered how you knew that "every man is armed." cwydro Dec 2019 #69

You said "brag", I said "almost" every man is armed, so far the minister doesn't carry although braddy Dec 2019 #74

And this will repeat itself over and over again where whole communities are forever CTyankee Jan 2020 #152

I like America. braddy Jan 2020 #155

Well, alrighty then. I guess that's settled. CTyankee Jan 2020 #156

"The nutcase had an ILLEGAL gun, (sawed-off shotgun,) and was a felon to boot." LaurenOlimina Dec 2019 #15

It was a shotgun. Archae Dec 2019 #38

So a legally purchased weapon? LaurenOlimina Dec 2019 #40

No. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #121

Why do so many take guns to church? onecaliberal Dec 2019 #17

Because WWJD? Dagstead Bumwood Dec 2019 #21

Maybe republican Jesus would but not the Jesus in the Bible. The one who said, "thou shall not kill" onecaliberal Dec 2019 #23

Yep, that's him. Dagstead Bumwood Dec 2019 #25

The actual commandment is Thou shall not murder (unlawful killing) Peter carried a sword with Jesus. braddy Dec 2019 #26

Seems like they had a lot of security Red Mountain Dec 2019 #18

Wow, victim blaming much? cwydro Dec 2019 #46

Does anyone know the origin of the name "White Settlement?" nt LAS14 Dec 2019 #22

Someone earlier posted some history... Whiskeytide Dec 2019 #33

Thanks. nt LAS14 Dec 2019 #36

It doesn't fit the narrative sarisataka Dec 2019 #27

Excellent point. cwydro Dec 2019 #47

It doesn't fit the narrative. I, for one, am happy that they took the shooter down. Chemisse Dec 2019 #67

I am glad the shooter was stopped sarisataka Dec 2019 #73

Gun fetishes are disgusting. hunter Dec 2019 #28

Is this the way you want to live? XRubicon Dec 2019 #29

we've been living this nightmare scenario for years, brought to you by the NRA and the GOP Demonaut Dec 2019 #35

Australian gun control "works?" Archae Dec 2019 #39

Yes, Austrailian gun control works XRubicon Dec 2019 #41

So in New Zealand he bought those assault rifles? Archae Dec 2019 #48

My understanding is he bought large capacity magazines illegally XRubicon Dec 2019 #54

Australia has had more mass shootings after their semi-auto ban than they did before it Recursion Dec 2019 #42

Gun violence is directly related to gun laws. XRubicon Dec 2019 #43

So, nothing? I listed 10 mass shootings in Australia since the semi-auto ban Recursion Dec 2019 #44

I've seen a few people here... Archae Dec 2019 #49

I'm not for banning all guns XRubicon Dec 2019 #58

You keep mentioning that there are a few people that want to ban ALL guns mokawanis Dec 2019 #64

Interesting that when you're bested, you claim dware Dec 2019 #59

Ok, according to wikipedia there have been 423 mass shootings XRubicon Dec 2019 #65

I was just commenting on that when you were shown to be wrong, dware Dec 2019 #68

ok.. I showed you how bad the data above is that you accepted XRubicon Dec 2019 #78

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2019 #93

I'll take that bet, because you would lose. dware Dec 2019 #110

Happy New Year! XRubicon Jan 2020 #113

The pleasure is all mine. dware Jan 2020 #115

And according to Mother Jones there have been 120 since 1982 Recursion Dec 2019 #97

Really? Jake Stern Jan 2020 #127

They get their guns out of state such as the Southern States JonLP24 Jan 2020 #186

What are you talking about? CTyankee Jan 2020 #178

Great example, thanks: 90 mass shooters in the US from 1966 to 2012 Recursion Jan 2020 #179

Did you read the piece I forwarded? CTyankee Jan 2020 #181

I did. Its conclusion seems to be "America is large" Recursion Jan 2020 #182

Do you disagree with the findings of the study and I quote: CTyankee Jan 2020 #183

I mean, their data don't support that weird claim Recursion Jan 2020 #184

Well, the NYT author has data that would suggest that you are mistaken. CTyankee Jan 2020 #185

No, I'm using that author's data Recursion Jan 2020 #187

Again, since you are using that author's data and arrive at a different conclusion, you obviously CTyankee Jan 2020 #189

Because there's no particular reason to? Recursion Jan 2020 #193

OK, we'll start from there, where we can agree. Fair enough. CTyankee Jan 2020 #196

On the political reality I imagine you're correct Recursion Jan 2020 #197

What happened to it? Was the idea crushed by the minions of the NRA? CTyankee Jan 2020 #206

The same thing that happened to his campaign Recursion Jan 2020 #207

public parks? I have lots of them cavorting around my house. I know how cold the winter will be CTyankee Jan 2020 #208

Ha! Recursion Jan 2020 #209

People want to blame anything but the guns JonLP24 Jan 2020 #188

I think we are going gently into that direction. CTyankee Jan 2020 #191

If I could make all handguns disappear I'd happily do that Recursion Jan 2020 #192

And assault rifles? CTyankee Jan 2020 #203

That's below making vending machines not tip over Recursion Jan 2020 #205

How did that work out for Beto? AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #236

Ah, yes, the Beto question! CTyankee Jan 2020 #237

The church had a lot of security because they know how dangerous gun-toters are. Hoyt Dec 2019 #32

Unrec Stinky The Clown Dec 2019 #34

"This time" StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #45

The good guy with the gun did not stop the bad guy with a gun from killing people uponit7771 Dec 2019 #50

Exactly! tosh Dec 2019 #71

+1. GRAs think if only 10 people are killed or shot & the bad guy with a gun is stopped after that uponit7771 Dec 2019 #88

But he did stop him from killing more, dware Dec 2019 #72

That's not the goal we were told by the NRA and GRAs. We were told the good guy with the gun can uponit7771 Dec 2019 #87

I would bet the person in the killer's crosshairs the instant he was shot by the good guy with mr_lebowski Jan 2020 #129

I would agree, my issue isn't with them my issue is with the bunk assed meme of "good person uponit7771 Jan 2020 #141

One freaking time out of a million. lark Dec 2019 #53

+1, the good guy with a gun did not stop the bad guy with a gun from killing people ... uponit7771 Dec 2019 #96

Although, we did know about the whacked out logic Bettie Dec 2019 #100

+1, like to see what folk say when them or thiers eats some bullets uponit7771 Dec 2019 #106

Pfft please ExciteBike66 Dec 2019 #55

Yay...two people are dead! Bettie Dec 2019 #57

You don't think that someone stopping a possible mass shooting dware Dec 2019 #62

I think that with better regulation Bettie Dec 2019 #86

And on that note, I agree with you. dware Jan 2020 #111

Don't focus too much on mental health treatment as an answer for gun violence JonLP24 Jan 2020 #190

I tend to lump in with mental health care Bettie Jan 2020 #195

I agree regarding anger management JonLP24 Jan 2020 #198

Where does this get categorized though? Bettie Jan 2020 #199

I wouldn't worry about it JonLP24 Jan 2020 #200

Next time, I'll simply elaborate as to Bettie Jan 2020 #201

Not as good of an outcome as keeping mass kill devices out of the hands of the GP and making it uponit7771 Dec 2019 #90

+1, the good guy with a gun did not stop the bad guy with a gun from killing people uponit7771 Dec 2019 #89

But he probably stopped him from killing more people Polybius Dec 2019 #94

Not the goal, the goal of the good guy was to keep the bad guy from doing ANY damage not just uponit7771 Dec 2019 #95

With a shotgun, it is entirely possible he had Bettie Dec 2019 #99

"they can shove it", LOL, OK tough guy! nt USALiberal Dec 2019 #60

Only in Texas do guns belong in Church. milestogo Dec 2019 #70

People here have come to accept mass shootings as routine Kaleva Dec 2019 #77

Funny thing there. Because looking at the picture that was shared... Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2019 #79

So all these decades later, gun people have their story that the right man had a gun. Lexee Dec 2019 #81

The Fallacy of Incomplete Evidence Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2019 #83

The good guy with the gun did not stop the bad guy with a gun from killing people, they have their uponit7771 Dec 2019 #91

Another Consideration. Who pays the Ambulance and Hospital bills? MarcA Dec 2019 #98

If they got shot in church Bettie Dec 2019 #107

Yes many of them believe that and god says we have MarcA Jan 2020 #128

They weren't "church provided armed security"....they were volunteers. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #122

Provided armed security can be volunteers as well as paid. MarcA Jan 2020 #125

But they weren't....so it's moot AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #126

it's a sickness...arm everyone.. stillcool Dec 2019 #82

I'm not sad the crazed gunman got killed. But in New York... Bucky Dec 2019 #84

And it was still too late - 2 people killed. cbdo2007 Dec 2019 #85

THANK YOU !!! uponit7771 Dec 2019 #92

+1 Bettie Dec 2019 #101

Imagine a country where churches and schools do not have armed guards. guillaumeb Dec 2019 #103

The problem is, while someone with a gun was able to take out the shooter ego_nation Dec 2019 #104

Actually their good guy with a gun system failed. MarcA Jan 2020 #124

Oh wow, so a ... TRAINED ... good person with a gun couldn't stop the untrained bad person uponit7771 Jan 2020 #145

Yes, the story was in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram paper and online. MarcA Jan 2020 #171

He wasn't trained in clairvoyance. Straw Man Jan 2020 #174

+1, therefore eliminate easy access to all firearms and make the owning if them harder than owningt uponit7771 Jan 2020 #175

Because .. Straw Man Jan 2020 #194

That's the way I see it. They should have grabbed this guy with a history of anger at the church, Hoyt Jan 2020 #146

+1, the goal post have been moved to the good person with a gun will stop the bad person after uponit7771 Jan 2020 #144

Always carry Alea Dec 2019 #108

Please tell, where do you live where you are in fear every day. XRubicon Dec 2019 #109

lol Alea Jan 2020 #112

Enjoy! XRubicon Jan 2020 #114

... while watching people getting killed and responding after they're dead? tia uponit7771 Jan 2020 #142

Location, location, location. Fla_Democrat Jan 2020 #116

The TX laws are being praised for "working" and keeping it from "being worse." Uh... Beartracks Jan 2020 #154

yup Skittles Jan 2020 #163

+1, yep the goal post has been moved from stopping BGWG to "not a lot of dead people" uponit7771 Jan 2020 #173

Why don't you ask the families how they feel about the armed parishioner taking down the shooter? Jake Stern Jan 2020 #215

In a Town Called.... LovingA2andMI Jan 2020 #159

This perp had a sawed-off shotgun right? How many times could it be fired before it was empty? RockRaven Jan 2020 #162

So if I'm reading your post correctly, dware Jan 2020 #166

You are not reading my post correctly then. I am asking for information which will clarify whether RockRaven Jan 2020 #168

How many rounds depends on which model of the shotgun. ManiacJoe Jan 2020 #172

From what I'm reading, a sawed off pump action can hold 5-7 rounds. Kaleva Jan 2020 #167

Thanks for the info. RockRaven Jan 2020 #169

You asked an interesting question and it greatly depends on what type of shotgun it is. Kaleva Jan 2020 #170

here's another way to look at it Skittles Jan 2020 #164

suicide is the new over the top gender reveal parties. pansypoo53219 Jan 2020 #177

"All gunz gotta be BANNED!" myohmy2 Jan 2020 #180

If no one had a gun, no one would have died. I don't want to live in a war zone. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #217

How do you do that.." If no one had a gun,.." AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #225

Bull shit...time to stop allowing people to be gunned down in theaters, churches...stores...the Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #227

I ask again...how do you do that..no guns... AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #230

Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #229

Way to use the NRA's exact slogans for defeating all gun control... jcgoldie Jan 2020 #218

Bullshit...people still died. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #228

And more likely would have been killed.. had it not been for Mr. Wilson. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #232