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Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
19. A lot of those flyover states are Big Energy states,
Fri Jan 31, 2020, 08:13 PM
Jan 2020

and those fat cats live there and other residents vote people who serve them into power. Because, for bizarre reasons related to the actual practice of democracy, that's what they want. Just like many trying to elect an incompetent but favorite candidate POTUS. Democracy in action.

But that doesn't answer my question, which was addressed to everyone who feels a need to get rid of 2 senators for every state nonsense to make the senate more "representative." How do we do that without making the nation far less representative at the same time? On a big, big scale too. No way to fix the oppression and growing poverty and injustice of small states except to move to a big, powerful state.

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Ok then, how do you change it ? OnDoutside Jan 2020 #1
Congress would have to change it - but it works for the RepubliCONs. polichick Jan 2020 #7
Don't forget, Article 1 of the constitution establishes Hortensis Jan 2020 #15
Needs to happen imo, but RepubliCONs use the flyover states... polichick Jan 2020 #16
The 2 senator representation made a lot more sense with the 13 states at that time ooky Feb 2020 #73
Perhaps. But let's back up. The 2 senators ALSO protects Hortensis Feb 2020 #90
Having state legislatures pick U.S. senators, of course, does nothing to ooky Feb 2020 #94
Yup. But any real passion for change right now WOULD be Hortensis Feb 2020 #96
Agree with that. ooky Feb 2020 #97
How about if high-population blue states are divided into small blue states royable Jan 2020 #23
Colorado tried that. 33taw Feb 2020 #26
Lessen their power. Bills must be debated rainy Feb 2020 #34
+1. Make them do away with the filibuster treestar Feb 2020 #62
Yep. A pretty shitty democracy. dem4decades Jan 2020 #2
Not a true democracy - we're a nation of smoke and mirrors. polichick Jan 2020 #8
We do not live in a true democracy. ... spin Jan 2020 #10
Well, when you figure out how to have over 300 million Hortensis Jan 2020 #18
It is amazing that the Constitution has been in effect for over 200 years. ... spin Jan 2020 #24
Millions of pages jimfields33 Feb 2020 #52
They lived in the 18th century treestar Feb 2020 #63
It turns out the British, for all their oppressing us treestar Feb 2020 #58
Yes, our form of government is old and outdated however it is unfortunately... spin Feb 2020 #91
Yes and the Founders thought they were making it changeable treestar Feb 2020 #105
Different is not the same thing as better FBaggins Feb 2020 #101
I don't know the UK system treestar Feb 2020 #106
Then probably not something you should declare to be better FBaggins Feb 2020 #108
How can you get a majority without a majority? treestar Feb 2020 #109
Easy. They have several parties FBaggins Feb 2020 #113
I always understood that the treestar Feb 2020 #117
You understood incorrectly FBaggins Feb 2020 #122
It was a compromise between big and small States edhopper Jan 2020 #3
Needs updating - but corrupt players use it to their advantage. polichick Jan 2020 #4
maybe edhopper Jan 2020 #6
+1 2naSalit Jan 2020 #13
Actually, dware Feb 2020 #76
Right! edhopper Feb 2020 #93
not if you don't even try treestar Feb 2020 #112
So tell us how you would get 2/3rds of the Congress dware Feb 2020 #74
That's why there are 2 chambers, elleng Jan 2020 #5
Made sense once but not now, considering population distribution. polichick Jan 2020 #9
Population distribution in the 18th century was exactly why we got this system. Steelrolled Feb 2020 #29
Yup, both the Senate and the Electoral College are outdated. We need a full overhaul coti Jan 2020 #11
So true - I worry about our kids with this perversion of democracy. polichick Jan 2020 #12
+1 treestar Feb 2020 #51
Yep ck4829 Feb 2020 #99
How do we keep populous states from stomping the people of small ones Hortensis Jan 2020 #14
What I think really happens is in #16 polichick Jan 2020 #17
A lot of those flyover states are Big Energy states, Hortensis Jan 2020 #19
There's also a lot of brainwashing by rightwing radio and mega-churches... polichick Jan 2020 #25
Yeah, democracy sucks, especially in stupid states Hortensis Feb 2020 #33
Wouldn't call them "stupid states" - which is why... polichick Feb 2020 #38
I have read that book, long ago though. Hortensis Feb 2020 #92
how do we manage the converse now? maxsolomon Jan 2020 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author Codeine Feb 2020 #36
I find this to be a right wing talking point with little merit. genxlib Feb 2020 #50
The way the system is now, the rural small states will rule treestar Feb 2020 #53
We are not a democracy but a representative republic Remington Jan 2020 #21
+1 crickets Jan 2020 #22
this system is giving us really shitty results Skittles Feb 2020 #27
+1 Mosby Feb 2020 #68
It has worked in the past with good results Polybius Feb 2020 #81
"The system isn't perfect but it's the best thing going" yonder Feb 2020 #28
Parliamentary system is better treestar Feb 2020 #66
Why should Wyoming and Alaska treestar Feb 2020 #65
So what if California decided it wanted to drain the Great Lakes ? MichMan Feb 2020 #84
What if some Senate a-hole representing a minority party decided the Constitution and truth coti Feb 2020 #87
How could they have enough votes for that? treestar Feb 2020 #107
Yeah but even you have your threshold moose65 Feb 2020 #69
Why are arbitrary lines on the ground represented at all, when it's people that matter? nt coti Feb 2020 #77
A Republic is not required to let some people have treestar Feb 2020 #111
The "modern" EU has similar issues Steelrolled Feb 2020 #30
Yes. This is obvious. Sometimes people try to defend it, but there's no rational defense. DanTex Feb 2020 #31
Taxation without representation. radius777 Feb 2020 #32
It's not a problem when we get 85-95% voter participation maxrandb Feb 2020 #35
Yes, increased participation is the answer. Here's how Oregon has done it- MerryBlooms Feb 2020 #42
The upper house - the Senate, was never intended to represent you; that's jmg257 Feb 2020 #37
Now these Senators represent the interests of the corporations and wealthy donors... polichick Feb 2020 #39
Yep -Likely the same for most govt reps - lots of gain to be made being in a position of power. jmg257 Feb 2020 #41
Since states are not equal in size, it's always going to be unfair treestar Feb 2020 #55
Or maybe we reduce the power of the federal govt, so the states have more power, as was originally jmg257 Feb 2020 #70
Today's senators obviously think the people in their states, if red, treestar Feb 2020 #71
They were never supposed to be elected either Polybius Feb 2020 #82
Yep - appointed by the state legislators. jmg257 Feb 2020 #83
If Democrats control the majority of state legislatures treestar Feb 2020 #119
How about statehood for D.C. and any territories that would phylny Feb 2020 #40
Be careful what we ask for. Not disagreeing on need for reforms, but elements of the right have Cognitive_Resonance Feb 2020 #43
Sometimes it does seem ridiculous, except when it doesn't. MineralMan Feb 2020 #44
+1 crickets Feb 2020 #45
Doesn't mean it can't be improved. Yeehah Feb 2020 #47
LOL. Iggo Feb 2020 #54
That is true. However, any such change should be made after MineralMan Feb 2020 #57
At the beginning of the Republic treestar Feb 2020 #56
Knowing the history helps, for sure. MineralMan Feb 2020 #59
Shouldn't take a super-majority though treestar Feb 2020 #61
On the other hand, we have the UK. MineralMan Feb 2020 #64
They have a health plan treestar Feb 2020 #67
Yes, but... Rollo Feb 2020 #72
Truly well spoken. dware Feb 2020 #79
Thank you very much. MineralMan Feb 2020 #86
+1 And an additional thought Bettie Feb 2020 #116
Acres of land should not have a vote Yeehah Feb 2020 #46
+1 ck4829 Feb 2020 #100
If you want a true democracy, we need to get rid of all these elected officials hughee99 Feb 2020 #48
Like the California propositions treestar Feb 2020 #60
Yes, sort of. The difference would be that the population would need to vote hughee99 Feb 2020 #89
Mob Rule? CFC Feb 2020 #102
Is that what California has? treestar Feb 2020 #104
Especially when some states marlakay Feb 2020 #49
I understand the opposition to it, but I wouldn't get too aggrivated Polybius Feb 2020 #75
And why do we need TWO Dakotas? sandensea Feb 2020 #78
I think a compromise position would be: krispos42 Feb 2020 #80
DC is not "too small" moose65 Feb 2020 #85
It's too small physically. krispos42 Feb 2020 #88
Disenfranchise the people who grow your food? Bad idea. n/t Odoreida Feb 2020 #95
It is ck4829 Feb 2020 #98
Good luck convincing those same tiny states to give up that power FBaggins Feb 2020 #103
Some would treestar Feb 2020 #110
Not nearly enough of them FBaggins Feb 2020 #114
a huge majority is not going to want to be ruled by treestar Feb 2020 #115
They've been been perfectly ok with that for over 200 years Polybius Feb 2020 #118
As it gets worse treestar Feb 2020 #120
They aren't FBaggins Feb 2020 #121
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