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Pachamama

(17,565 posts)
11. The Case Fatality Rate (CFR) is currently 6% - the 3.4% is not the correct number
Fri Mar 6, 2020, 08:31 PM
Mar 2020

Notice no one from WHO, CDC, NIH etc will ever say with certainty that the death or mortality rate is X. In fact they know that number is a moving target and can also be based only on “Known” cases and be only factually and conclusively calculated based on “Cases with Outcome”

Currently, there are 101,955 “Known reported Cases” (and assuming all reported that were known”). There are likely many times that number not reported because they are “unknown” and are asymptomatic and spreading it around with an Ro transmission rate twice of the seasonal flu. (Ro for seasonal flu is 1-1.5 persons infected from infected person and the COVID-19 virus has a Ro rate of 2-3 persons infected from infected person).

Of the 101,955 known reported cases, 59,589 (approx. 58%) are what is known as “Cases with Outcome”. There are only two possible outcomes:

1) You Are Dead (Currently 3466 dead as of March 6th, 2020

2) You Recovered (Currently 56,123 of cases with Outcome recovered as of March 6th, 2020)

This is a 5.8 CFR of the known cases with Outcome. A definitive number. This is the number to be watching and is going to likely be 1-2 years from now this or higher and after there is a vaccine and the epidemic is over that historical references to “death rate” of COVID-19 will end up being. Expect in coming months the official number that WHO quotes as fatality rate will be bumped up from 3.4% to 5-6%. Higher if the CFR of Cases with known outcome rises.


The other half of “known reported Cases” are “Cases with No known Outcome”. Of those cases which currently is 42,366 (and does not include unknown infected people which could be 2-10 times that) there are two categories:

1) Infected Patient with Mild Condition (Currently 35,965 as of March 6th, 2020) - 85% of known infected cases with unknown outcome.

2) Patients in Serious or Critical Condition (which can be two sub categories but calculated and tracked currently and reported as one by WHO) is currently 6401 as of March 6th, 2020) - 15% of known infected cases with unknown outcome.


Watch this number very closely because the total cases of known infected people will continue to rise as more people get sick and show symptoms and are tested. Watch the number in the Serious to critical condition number and percentage. It of course varies country to country in data due to the medical system and available care, age and health of the individual. Older people over 60 and with under lying conditions like hypertension, heart disease, cancer etc have the highest fatality rate - the lowest being the young and heathy.

But based on the overall data tracked since the reporting began - approx 50% of the people in the category of cases in serious to critical condition are dying. I expect therefore how data haas been tracking that an additional 3000 plus will be dead in the next several weeks, doubling the current number of dead and again, making the CFR closer to 6%. Yes, a 6% death rate.

Compare that to the seasonal flu which has a death rate of .1% and the Spanish Flu of 1918-1920 that was 1-2% (depending on which data you get of how many thought to have been infected and who died ranging from 20 -50 Million people.

You don’t need to be a Math genius to be able to do the math of seeing that the COVID-19 Coronavirus is far far worse and what the number of infected and number of dead will likely be 1-2 years from now if the spread continues.

And don’t believe anyone who tells you there will be a cure and vaccine soon. Even if the global medical mad scientist community and greatest minds worked closely together, we won’t have a vaccine for at least one year. And what happens when we aren’t testing and containing and it spreads twice as fast.

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I wish people would stop doing that FBaggins Mar 2020 #1
we know that the death rate so far is 3.4% globally. garybeck Mar 2020 #3
Nope... it isn't FBaggins Mar 2020 #8
It's true that we have only preliminary estimates.. defacto7 Mar 2020 #14
Yes, we can't go on speculation just what we know. The math from WHAT WE KNOW is this is worse uponit7771 Mar 2020 #24
Is it not the same for the flu? mmbrevo Mar 2020 #25
This is not true. defacto7 Mar 2020 #12
Thank you. There's a huge misconception about the entire population mortality rate. Pobeka Mar 2020 #20
That's not what the Harvard epidemiologist said, at all. DanTex Mar 2020 #41
You're right, I misinterpreted what he said. Pobeka Mar 2020 #42
The hospitalization rates are the bigger problem Recursion Mar 2020 #32
Initial calculations were lower. They've gone up. Crunchy Frog Mar 2020 #50
We hope that's true. The original SARS was, early, estimated at 3%. It was 9%. enki23 Mar 2020 #51
Thank you for reminding folks of this. Mike 03 Mar 2020 #2
that is some scary sh*t garybeck Mar 2020 #4
Wouldn't be "fine," even if mortality rate were revised down... pat_k Mar 2020 #5
That 3% mortality is those who had symptoms severe enough to seek PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #6
your point is? garybeck Mar 2020 #9
My point is that no where near 3% of all who get the disease are dying. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #17
Why did China have to build 2 hospitals in record time? Dem2 Mar 2020 #45
To warehouse people. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #46
I wish I had some idea what the odds were of her getting it Dem2 Mar 2020 #47
Currently there is no realistic was to calculate those odds. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #48
They're not just counting those who have been hospitalized. Where did you get that idea? Crunchy Frog Mar 2020 #53
Your last sentence really comes off poorly. Do you know what a 3% death rate looks. GulfCoast66 Mar 2020 #10
See my post#11 giving an explanation of Mortality rates in the epidemiology world Pachamama Mar 2020 #13
It's figured on the percentage of deaths where there is an outcome. defacto7 Mar 2020 #15
It still does not count the many who have mild or no symptoms. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #22
Have we heard from the professional epidemiologists that put out these numbers mr_lebowski Mar 2020 #29
They probably say it because epidemiologists defacto7 Mar 2020 #40
Fox News, nothing! I'm seeing it here! Squinch Mar 2020 #7
The Case Fatality Rate (CFR) is currently 6% - the 3.4% is not the correct number Pachamama Mar 2020 #11
On the mark. defacto7 Mar 2020 #16
thank you but i think you're missing the point, as others are garybeck Mar 2020 #18
Clearly I am not missing the point which is why I posted real math to show the point n/t Pachamama Mar 2020 #19
Known reported cases. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #23
No offense but I think you're maybe missing something my ladyfriend PO :) mr_lebowski Mar 2020 #30
Bingo. PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #37
The only 'very very very' many people you know for sure about ... mr_lebowski Mar 2020 #39
If unknown cases are not relevant, PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #43
In medically developed countries (not the US), Crunchy Frog Mar 2020 #56
Republicans are REALLY bad at math ThoughtCriminal Mar 2020 #21
What is the ***INFECTION*** rate !? Dying is horrible getting sick from this is bad !! uponit7771 Mar 2020 #26
It really is.. littlemissmartypants Mar 2020 #34
Thank you elleng Mar 2020 #27
So 35 million people get the seasonal flu in spite of wide spread vaccinations captain queeg Mar 2020 #28
The missing piece Onelove Vt Mar 2020 #31
Welcome to DU, and I 100% agree Recursion Mar 2020 #33
Welcome to DU! ❤ nt littlemissmartypants Mar 2020 #35
Even in a normal, boring, not very noticeable flu season, PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2020 #38
"The drastic things that China did" greyl Mar 2020 #44
Great post, garybeck. Thanks for sharing this. ❤ nt littlemissmartypants Mar 2020 #36
it's more like 300x the mortality rate of the flu which is 0.01% (n/t) Spider Jerusalem Mar 2020 #49
"Like the flu" can mean a lot of things. I just read some about the "Spanish flu" back in 1918 brewens Mar 2020 #52
The R0 number is more important because it's exponential BernieBabies Mar 2020 #54
It's not 3% Terry_M Mar 2020 #55
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