General Discussion

pasto76

(1,589 posts)

35. lots of wild speculation, gross armchair quarterbacking in this thread.

Tue Sep 11, 2012, 12:20 PM

Sep 2012

Given the new NYT article that goes more in depth about how much and how often the Bush admin had been warned, absolutely, there should have been preventative actions against something.

But our culture is rife with the "it wont happen to me" mentality. Safety professionals talk about that all the time. "I dont have to use this PPE, it wont happen to me". Think it's bullshit? do you talk or text while driving? you're living proof.

I do have experience with emergency management on the county level. The thought of traffic controllers putting all these pieces together, independently, and seperated by hundreds of miles, is mind boggling.

couple people submitting that there are armed fighters on "standby" somewhere...I dont know of any. If you espouse that there are these capabilities, you should be able to present specifics.

Technology technology technology. None of it stopped motivated foot soldiers, armed with blades. It's about as low tech as it gets.

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Listening to msnbc 9/11 coverage, something really bothering me [View all] madaboutharry Sep 2012 OP

It was over 30 min. until the 2nd plane hit the WTC DontTreadOnMe Sep 2012 #1

Always thought that was out of character abelenkpe Sep 2012 #41

35 minutes Politicalboi Sep 2012 #51

I'm with you madaboutharry. NO one will ever convince me that TPTB didn't snappyturtle Sep 2012 #2

...and we STILL haven't seen the unedited TAPES (like more than 10) of the pentagon hit.... uponit7771 Sep 2012 #3

I never understood why those damn "emergency alert" tests we suffered through for years Happyhippychick Sep 2012 #4

Michael Moore did a movie on that riverbendviewgal Sep 2012 #5

Clarke's book is excellent... Bluenorthwest Sep 2012 #54

Remember that when they finally got the planes scrambled, they were NOT armed. They were Pirate Smile Sep 2012 #6

No - they were armed hack89 Sep 2012 #15

Here in Philly BumRushDaShow Sep 2012 #25

They were from JRB Willow Grove. Blue State Bandit Sep 2012 #48

The "terrorist" made it easy to shoot them down Politicalboi Sep 2012 #58

There were two closer bases that somehow didn't respond with F 16s. IggleDoer Sep 2012 #65

Those bases did not have strip alert interceptors hack89 Sep 2012 #67

The other thing Mick said... Atman Sep 2012 #7

Its not all as simple as it seems... Whiskeytide Sep 2012 #8

ooo...logical Patiod Sep 2012 #11

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories. madaboutharry Sep 2012 #18

If it is all "conspiracy theory" than why did the PNAC have their plans all written up already? rwsanders Sep 2012 #30

Shhhhhh! Politicalboi Sep 2012 #60

And right out of their playbook "The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today" RepublicansRZombies Sep 2012 #69

but when a small plane breached the airspace near the Pres. O in Seattle, the fighters were there progressivebydesign Sep 2012 #26

interesting RepublicansRZombies Sep 2012 #71

Do you think that things are done differently after 9/11? nt hack89 Sep 2012 #84

Air traffic controllers have "the authority" to recognize planes in the wrong airspace. Atman Sep 2012 #27

Random. You're funny. PNAC even stated in their docs they wanted another Pearl Harbor. valerief Sep 2012 #31

So true Politicalboi Sep 2012 #62

I translate your post, Whiskeytide: Our military leadership was incompetent and lacked the JDPriestly Sep 2012 #36

I agree with pretty much all of what you say... Whiskeytide Sep 2012 #72

Thanks. I hope that planes have now been equipped so that this kind of even cannot occur. JDPriestly Sep 2012 #105

Another amazing live comment... Atman Sep 2012 #9

It was being reported on national news, Katy Couric among others, MadHound Sep 2012 #10

Good question. PearliePoo2 Sep 2012 #12

There were 14 planes on alert at 7 sites on 9/11 hack89 Sep 2012 #14

Yes, they knew where the hijacked planes were, MadHound Sep 2012 #22

All planes had turned off the transponders louis-t Sep 2012 #29

Umm, radar? MadHound Sep 2012 #32

Gee, if radar can track every plane in the sky, why even have transponders? louis-t Sep 2012 #40

Radar can see the planes. Atman Sep 2012 #42

Sure it would... Whiskeytide Sep 2012 #76

There was a lot of time. Atman Sep 2012 #85

20 different guys.. Whiskeytide Sep 2012 #92

To whom did they yell? Atman Sep 2012 #94

I'm not apologizing for anyone. But I'm also not blaming people... Whiskeytide Sep 2012 #104

Radar can see aircraft with transponders off. Mainly, the transponders are for exact indentificatio ladjf Sep 2012 #37

The air traffic control system is a cooperative system hack89 Sep 2012 #45

I believe that your statement that "controllers do not see actual radar return" is not true. ladjf Sep 2012 #68

So nice during a time of war the enemy is honorable enough to leave their transponder on RepublicansRZombies Sep 2012 #73

The air traffic control system is not a military system, is it? hack89 Sep 2012 #75

The FAA notifies the military when a plane veers off course or shut off a transponder RepublicansRZombies Sep 2012 #79

Where to start. hack89 Sep 2012 #82

What do you mean "beside the Payne Stewart incident"????? Atman Sep 2012 #86

The Payne Stewart intercept was an ad hoc affair that took nearly 90 minutes hack89 Sep 2012 #88

You're right. Atman Sep 2012 #87

No - there is not a huge system hack89 Sep 2012 #89

"Inland?" Atman Sep 2012 #90

Let me explain hack89 Sep 2012 #91

Meanwhile, ATC in Boston would have noted that they lost a plane. Atman Sep 2012 #95

No - the plane was not under Boston control anymore hack89 Sep 2012 #96

Not true. knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #99

You misunderstood my post hack89 Sep 2012 #100

I still don't see how that makes much difference... Atman Sep 2012 #101

Because radar is not a magic lantern that illuminates everything hack89 Sep 2012 #103

They turned off the IFF transponders hack89 Sep 2012 #43

Bullshit that no one knew where they were! Atman Sep 2012 #23

First off, the ATC system is built around IFF transponders hack89 Sep 2012 #47

Thank you! louis-t Sep 2012 #53

I believe that our military is used for Defense RepublicansRZombies Sep 2012 #74

There is not a huge system of military radars covering America hack89 Sep 2012 #78

the military has no RADAR capable of watching the skies within the country? RepublicansRZombies Sep 2012 #80

Look for yourself hack89 Sep 2012 #83

Katie Couric never reported that 4 planes sufrommich Sep 2012 #13

Yes, she did. MadHound Sep 2012 #20

No, she didn't and you saying you saw it sufrommich Sep 2012 #33

watch it again SansACause Sep 2012 #50

You have a false memory cpwm17 Sep 2012 #93

there was an exercise that day, run out of the situation room by Cheney grasswire Sep 2012 #52

So a reporter repeated a rumor during an attack on the US. sufrommich Sep 2012 #16

What I noticed was the broadcaster's total lack of showing empathy toward the horror Auntie Bush Sep 2012 #17

With over an hour of warning, the Republican Pentagon could not muster even a pop gun Berlum Sep 2012 #19

we are expected to believe Rumsfeld had no idea of the attacks until a plane hit the pentagon 1 hour RepublicansRZombies Sep 2012 #77

I never ever understood WHY box cutters and BIG knives were ever allowed in the cabin anyway. SoapBox Sep 2012 #21

How come when I mentioned this broadcast, my thread got locked? Atman Sep 2012 #24

The events on that day are arguably the greatest watershed moment in our history. panader0 Sep 2012 #28

Pearl Harbor? FreeJoe Sep 2012 #63

I will forever believe that cheney had something to do with it. /nt mwb970 Sep 2012 #34

lots of wild speculation, gross armchair quarterbacking in this thread. pasto76 Sep 2012 #35

Bush kept us SAFE! always remember that Gabi Hayes Sep 2012 #38

I would agree with you but for one important point... Atman Sep 2012 #39

It's a real stretch to think our $600BB/year Pentagon couldn't protect itself. Old and In the Way Sep 2012 #49

they expect us to believe that the RADAR was looking outward,military has no RADAR within country RepublicansRZombies Sep 2012 #81

August 5, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing: Myrina Sep 2012 #44

I'll never forget the look on Condi's face as she was forced to recite Gabi Hayes Sep 2012 #56

It was CHENEY who ordered the military to stand down RoccoR5955 Sep 2012 #46

And it was Rumsfeld who ordered a change in NORAD & FAA radar management... patrice Sep 2012 #61

yes--standing orders are to scramble instantly on a threat, someone high up must tell them librechik Sep 2012 #55

Here's someone who would have had some answers... AntiFascist Sep 2012 #97

RIP on its face the whole event stinks to high heaven librechik Sep 2012 #98

If we're capable of asking these questions, why didn't Congress? Are they stupid, or what???? patrice Sep 2012 #57

they were underfunded, given a vicious deadline and get this NO subpoena power librechik Sep 2012 #102

Four hijacked airliners are a lower priority than one golfer in a tiny plane n/t arcane1 Sep 2012 #59

MSNBC is propaganda, it's full of lies, constant steady lies and coverups. just1voice Sep 2012 #64

listening to the old msnbc tapes, I have something else that bothers me Whisp Sep 2012 #66

Post removed Post removed Sep 2012 #70