General Discussion

JHB

(38,072 posts)

65. How about you break that number down, and go into the assumptions behind it?

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 06:09 AM

Sep 2012

Over how much time?

Under what assumptions of taxation and tax receipts?

Under what assumptions of cost growth?

Does it assume that there are no substantial policy changes?

Small differences in assumptions vs reality over time make a tremendous difference in that number, in the same way that "compound interest is the greatest force in the universe" (usually attributed to Einstein).

I know the RWers love to bandy about that number, just like they bandy about figures from conservative "think" tanks that inflate the amount spent on "anti-poverty programs" by including programs and tax deductions that mostly affect the middle class and not the poor.

So where does that number come from and what goes into it? Please report so that we can decide.

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This 53 year old has it right.... [View all] Playinghardball Sep 2012 OP

yup. nt seabeyond Sep 2012 #1

SWEET!!! coldbeer Sep 2012 #14

Yep. The "over my dead body" part is quite accurate. Duer 157099 Sep 2012 #2

I am 47 I totally agree... Kalidurga Sep 2012 #3

Just turned 48 and totally agree MotorCityMan Sep 2012 #55

I'm 75 and I agree HelenWheels Sep 2012 #84

You are absolutely right OLDMDDEM Oct 2012 #89

Out of money is out of money. dkf Sep 2012 #4

RE: out of money is out of money ToxMarz Sep 2012 #19

+1 Jazzgirl Sep 2012 #25

Thanks for answering that so capably.. tokenlib Sep 2012 #51

How can you pay out $70 trillion when total US wealth is less than $70 trillion? dkf Sep 2012 #77

ummm Loudestlib Sep 2012 #85

There is plenty of money. It just needs to be paid. Ikonoklast Sep 2012 #20

The present value of our federal obligations is $70 trillion if you add social security and Medicare dkf Sep 2012 #31

You assume that there will be nothing done to change that. Ikonoklast Sep 2012 #33

RE: Crazy huh? ToxMarz Sep 2012 #37

"We" didn't get "ourselves" on any hook, we were robbed and the money is still there. n/t Egalitarian Thug Sep 2012 #39

You throw that $70 trillion number around pretty liberally (so to speak)... JHB Sep 2012 #64

The SS fund is not in any danger of not being able to meet its obligations for at least another sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #30

The net present value of federal obligations is $70 trillion. That equals all the world's assets. dkf Sep 2012 #34

Oh FFS dkf HangOnKids Sep 2012 #38

You tell me when the US Government has ever defaulted on its sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #40

They aren't going to default on the Treasury Bonds. It's the rest of the obligations at risk. dkf Sep 2012 #42

What obligations are at risk? sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #46

No...I'm talking about after the trust fund is used up. dkf Sep 2012 #54

The trust fund will not be used up. It has three sources of revenue and sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #56

Do you not understand they have obligated more money than exists? dkf Sep 2012 #69

You Understand That The Wealth Is Recycled Over Time? ProfessorGAC Sep 2012 #78

So you think it is perfectly reasonable to think that obligations with a net present value of $70 dkf Sep 2012 #80

The fucking trust fund is SUPPOSED to be used up, fercrhissakes! eridani Sep 2012 #58

When you add all the promises it exceeds our assets. dkf Sep 2012 #75

The we default to our other creditors and cut back our imperial war machine eridani Sep 2012 #87

How about you break that number down, and go into the assumptions behind it? JHB Sep 2012 #65

This is the same logic Bush & Issa used to kill the post office Doctor_J Sep 2012 #73

there are numerous flaws in the model cojoel Sep 2012 #83

+1 DeeDeeNY Sep 2012 #70

We need more bullshit RW talking points the way we need holes in our heads n/t eridani Sep 2012 #57

Did you get your numbers from Drudge Report? ...Again? n/t Scootaloo Sep 2012 #61

Really? Tell the 1%ers whose wealth is growing exponentially dotymed Sep 2012 #71

There is plenty of money. Its just spent on the wrong things. olegramps Sep 2012 #76

Am 64 and will be taking Medicare in Jan. I don't want to see anyone lose these benefits. southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #5

+1000. Just found out that I will have to have a cataract operation eridani Sep 2012 #59

I am grateful to get it. I will fight for the younger people to have it also. Not just for my southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #66

Oh, yes, and then some... MANative Sep 2012 #6

I resemble that remark liberal N proud Sep 2012 #7

I'm 51... Sophiegirl Sep 2012 #8

They need to raise the ceiling on FICA. Blanks Sep 2012 #9

Exactly PatSeg Sep 2012 #22

President Obama supported it in 2008--it's better than cuts.. tokenlib Sep 2012 #53

I'm 53 as well and that's EXACTLY how I feel. Matariki Sep 2012 #10

Especially when they enjoy all sorts of "entitlements" themselves Art_from_Ark Sep 2012 #48

I will turn 64 in November HockeyMom Sep 2012 #11

I'm 55 & I don't believe the bullshit that I'm safe. CrispyQ Sep 2012 #12

Anyone over 55 (or even over 65) who thinks they are safe is delusional eridani Sep 2012 #62

I'm a little short of that mark, but not by much... JHB Sep 2012 #13

as they talk about stopping Social Security and Medicare onethatcares Sep 2012 #15

Remember the "work until you're 70" suggestions of late? KansDem Sep 2012 #35

yes, I remember that onethatcares Sep 2012 #43

more divide + conquer. pansypoo53219 Sep 2012 #16

Do the right thing! HenryWallace Sep 2012 #17

So how do we fix it? pediatricmedic Sep 2012 #18

Change the tax rate paid from 2.9% to 4.25%. Medicare Fixed. Ikonoklast Sep 2012 #24

There are a number of tweaks that could be tried taught_me_patience Sep 2012 #28

Don't forget Medicare for All. If our per capita health care expenses were the same-- eridani Sep 2012 #63

Fix what? You just made a false statement regarding SS. sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #41

mark to come back to rurallib Sep 2012 #21

Bullshit. It's only a little adjustment around the margins. MannyGoldstein Sep 2012 #23

You think cat food is cheap? still_one Sep 2012 #27

Some of it is pretty cheap Art_from_Ark Sep 2012 #52

At 61 I'm eligible to file for SS in December--and I am. mnhtnbb Sep 2012 #26

I hope he explained that to his parents. JohnnyRingo Sep 2012 #29

Retired people need to be made to understand that they are not grandfathered into anything! brewens Sep 2012 #32

I happen to be 53, too. hamsterjill Sep 2012 #36

I'm 51 and this really pisses me off. madinmaryland Sep 2012 #44

Is it possible that hospitals are grossly overcharging and no one is stopping them? RepublicansRZombies Sep 2012 #45

I turned 55, this year Timbuk3 Sep 2012 #47

This 53 year old agrees. OnionPatch Sep 2012 #49

I'm 52 and can totally relate - part of why this is being done is demographics NoAmericanTaliban Sep 2012 #50

"Fuck the young" Scootaloo Sep 2012 #60

What comes after the The Greatest Generation. Sanddancer Sep 2012 #67

I just turned 65 OLDMDDEM Sep 2012 #68

Which is why every single Dem in the WH and Congress should declare, Doctor_J Sep 2012 #72

I've been paying into it for 30 years boston bean Sep 2012 #74

I'm 49. Borchkins Sep 2012 #79

53 next month LittleGirl Sep 2012 #81

Amen, I'm 58, sibs are 52, 50 and 46. joanbarnes Sep 2012 #82

I'm 48 and feel the exact same way!!! citizen blues Sep 2012 #86

Playinghardball OLDMDDEM Oct 2012 #88