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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
63. Saying Islam is bullshit is expressive speech.
Fri Sep 14, 2012, 04:46 PM
Sep 2012

Last edited Fri Sep 14, 2012, 05:19 PM - Edit history (1)

It is hard to think of clearer example of expression of viewpoint than saying that some religion is BS. (The expression that Islam is awesome is surely an expression of viewpoint, not an incitement to Terry Jones to start some shit.)

Me saying in this post, "Islam is bullshit," could start a riot somewhere. But even if I am currently hoping that it will start a riot, and even if I just typed that with the intention of starting a riot it is still not incitement to riot because there is nothing in the statement, "Islam is BS" that instructs or encourages anyone to participate in a riot.

What I cannot do is to talk to real Egyptians in Cairo and say, "Let's start smashing windows. Who's with me?"

You have stated your opinion that the film has no point of view beyond incitement to riot. Media for Christ (the production company name) may have a different view. Perhaps one religion saying another religion sucks is seeking to buttress their message that their religion is the only true path to god and the other religion is false. And if that isn't protected speech then nothing is.

It is established US law that a group of Nazis holding a march in Skokie, Illinois, a town full of holocaust survivors at the time, is not incitement to riot. The fact that the Nazis were plainly doing so to upset Jews was still not sufficient to say that saying, "Nazism is cool," is not an expressive act.

Criticizing a religion in a video is the very heart of expressive speech of the sort described in the US code as not being incitement to riot. It is doubly protected, both insofar as it is protected speech and since any sanction of it would be subject to strict scrutiny as potential establishment of religion.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

If you believe he did so MrDiaz Sep 2012 #1
Why did Shrub CJCRANE Sep 2012 #5
i forgot about the mohammed in a bear suit thing. loli phabay Sep 2012 #14
Coordinated attacks on 2 embassies on 9/11 KurtNYC Sep 2012 #2
The easiest way to show the RWers' hypocrisy is to ask: CJCRANE Sep 2012 #3
I have not watched the video - does it advocate violence directly? el_bryanto Sep 2012 #4
"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said. Jessy169 Sep 2012 #7
If someone made a similar film exposing various Popes as venal and feckless el_bryanto Sep 2012 #8
But why did Shrub bomb an Al Jazeera office CJCRANE Sep 2012 #27
Well I'm pretty sure I oppose bombing the Al Jazeera office el_bryanto Sep 2012 #36
In the right circles the video is like yelling "Fire!" in a theater. We need to remember snappyturtle Sep 2012 #6
Also look at how the Pentagon views terrorist propaganda. CJCRANE Sep 2012 #9
Right! nt snappyturtle Sep 2012 #73
No the fuck it isn't by any honest stretch of the imagination, there is no reasonable threat to life TheKentuckian Sep 2012 #79
You know what they say isisdianahecate369 Jan 2013 #81
welcome to DU--love your screen name niyad Jan 2013 #84
I'll take my content over "their's" all day, every day. TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #85
I'm not a Muslim, I wasn't offended, and burnsei sensei Sep 2012 #10
But flip it the other way... CJCRANE Sep 2012 #11
The US already does enough to incite hatred of Americans without Al Qaeda saying anything. L0oniX Sep 2012 #23
Insulting a religous leader is legal in this country Marrah_G Sep 2012 #12
as it should be. loli phabay Sep 2012 #15
I agree Marrah_G Sep 2012 #19
But if the religious leader is in another country you should be sent over there to face their wrath Zalatix Sep 2012 #26
AND if you try to defend free speech and 1A, you are obviously an Islamaphobe bigot riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #61
Well one person called me an Islamophobe. I forwarded the post to my buddies. We rioted. Zalatix Sep 2012 #68
Good grief what if they decide our pro-choice policies are blasphemous and incites riots? dkf Sep 2012 #13
+1,000, game, set, match. Zalatix Sep 2012 #17
The video was eliminationist, that's why they're angry. CJCRANE Sep 2012 #18
Why do you say that? Did you see it? dkf Sep 2012 #24
The guy whio made it said "Islam is a cancer". That's similar to the Nazi's eliminationist rhetoric. CJCRANE Sep 2012 #30
I heard it was a shoddily produced almost comical string of ridiculousness. dkf Sep 2012 #31
A lot of propaganda is ridiculous. CJCRANE Sep 2012 #34
So they should have been prosecuted too? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Sep 2012 #66
I didn't say anything about prosecuting the film maker or banning the video. CJCRANE Sep 2012 #67
I presume you'll be writing to the al-Islam Group, then MNBrewer Sep 2012 #49
I'm not writing to the maker of the video CJCRANE Sep 2012 #51
Al Qaeda propaganda certainly isn't worth the drone strikes we send out in response. Zalatix Sep 2012 #28
+1 L0oniX Sep 2012 #21
+100! nt Skip Intro Sep 2012 #37
Conspiracy to incite riots... Zalatix Sep 2012 #16
+1 L0oniX Sep 2012 #20
The film is not an incitement to riot cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #22
That's yesterday's definition. See: Oldspeak, aka crimethink. Zalatix Sep 2012 #29
Who would be in trouble in this situation? BarackTheVote Sep 2012 #25
I have to wonder if "Bacile" had permission from his parole officer to use a computer. MADem Sep 2012 #33
You have fallen into an all too common error cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #40
How so? BarackTheVote Sep 2012 #55
Please identify the statute you are applying jberryhill Sep 2012 #32
Did you even bother to read the OP? renie408 Sep 2012 #35
Your idea that ideas you disagree with are not ideas is horrifying cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #38
You don't get it Jessy169 Sep 2012 #43
You have no idea what expressive speech is, and repeating your error cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #47
You're wrong again Jessy169 Sep 2012 #53
Saying Islam is bullshit is expressive speech. cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #63
Inciting a riot is a crime. Getting people killed is a crime. aquart Sep 2012 #60
Not under that statute jberryhill Sep 2012 #41
I'm not an attorney Jessy169 Sep 2012 #44
You know a lot of attorneys are compulsives? jberryhill Sep 2012 #50
Forget "conspiracy"--you haven't defined the primary crime they are meant to have Romulox Sep 2012 #39
Case law? Are you crazy? jberryhill Sep 2012 #42
I would like to see some federal court decisions that back up your interpretations. former9thward Sep 2012 #45
We'll see about that Jessy169 Sep 2012 #46
So all I have to do to stop debate on a subject... FreeJoe Sep 2012 #57
In 1977 the Nazis decided to march in Skokie which is a Jewish suburb of Chicago. former9thward Sep 2012 #58
I see the issue as Free Speech shintao Sep 2012 #48
Why do you think the USCS applies to events happening overseas? ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #52
Does USCS apply to U.S. Consulates and Embassies overseas? Jessy169 Sep 2012 #54
Its the kind of question for law school exams...depends heavily on the situation. ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #56
So, it is settled Jessy169 Sep 2012 #59
You do have a First Amendment right to lie and slander, but you can be sued for civil damages (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #77
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #82
Final note Jessy169 Sep 2012 #62
Until you go to Law School and learn COLGATE4 Sep 2012 #69
What are you saying? Jessy169 Sep 2012 #70
This isn't a game of 'which point of view do you like best'. COLGATE4 Sep 2012 #71
Duly noted. Jessy169 Sep 2012 #72
All protestations to the contrary, you are not really COLGATE4 Sep 2012 #80
You could not be more right. isisdianahecate369 Jan 2013 #83
"Fighting Words" example. Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #78
The people who aired the Rodney King video incited a riot. hughee99 Sep 2012 #64
People can make stupid movies gollygee Sep 2012 #65
What color is the sky in the world you live in? WillowTree Sep 2012 #74
There have been lots of discussions about this in the last day davidpdx Sep 2012 #75
Should Salman Rushdie have been arrested and charged? Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #76
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