Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: We've been told any action reasonably expected to elicit a violent response [View all]Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)53. Your interpretation of the First Amendment is too narrow.
You write:
The specificity and the intensity of provocation is the key, not the speech or the reaction. The KKK can march through Skokie with their white power signs and chant about the supriority of their beliefs, but they aren't protected if those signs are specifically derogitory (as in <targeted group> always <unspeakable acts> ) and otherwise verbally assault people, their families, their culture, and their activities in the crowd as they march by.
That's not how American courts have applied the First Amendment. The speech you describe (the highly offensive signs) would be protected.
There's a limited exception that's not based on the "intensity of provocation" but rather on the circumstances. The exception can be roughly stated as "a clear and present danger to public order". If I want to carry a sign saying that the LDS Church is a Satanic cult and that Mormons commit unspeakable acts, I can do so, even if I'm parading through downtown Salt Lake City with it. BUT if Joseph Smith (the founder of the LDS Church) is being held in jail, guarded by only a handful of deputies, and there's a large angry anti-Mormon mob assembled outside, and I give a fiery speech intended to incite the crowd to go beyond general hostility to Mormons and instead to storm the jail right there and then to drag Smith out and murder him, then that speech can be prohibited.
Furthermore, there's an exception to the exception. The courts generally won't enforce a "heckler's veto" (as termed by Harry Kalven). In the (historically accurate) Joseph Smith example, the clear and present danger to public order came from the people whom the speaker was inciting to action. If you allow suppression of speech based on the reaction of those hostile to the speaker, then anyone willing to resort to violence can shut down the peaceful speech of nonviolent advocates of different ideas. It's as if abortion opponents, by threatening to bring guns to a reproductive rights rally and start shooting people with pro-choice signs, could thereby empower the authorities to prohibit the rally. That's not the law in the United States, nor should it be.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
53 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
We've been told any action reasonably expected to elicit a violent response [View all]
Nuclear Unicorn
Sep 2012
OP
I think there could be a case made for inciting a riot, hate speech violations or
renie408
Sep 2012
#3
so if people riot because of what your write here, you are responsible for the riots? ok nt
msongs
Sep 2012
#7
It relates to the reailty of what is actually going on, as described in your OP.
JoePhilly
Sep 2012
#9
So you say but the reality -- the real reality -- is there are terrorists who killed Americans
Nuclear Unicorn
Sep 2012
#16
If mocking people's sacred beliefs automatically make someone an extremist
Nuclear Unicorn
Sep 2012
#21
You suck at this ... the guy who created that video had an intent. You can PRETEND
JoePhilly
Sep 2012
#25
I would expect anyone under a credible threat of violence to be protected
Nuclear Unicorn
Sep 2012
#35
Truly. The most horrible kind of people are those who *don't* go around murdering others
4th law of robotics
Sep 2012
#30
It'd prove the blind stupidity of thinking that deliberate provocation should be ignored
Spider Jerusalem
Sep 2012
#41
Just because someone wants to react violently doesn't mean we capitulate
Nuclear Unicorn
Sep 2012
#43
If I recall protests have occasion led to riots and other forms of violence
4th law of robotics
Sep 2012
#31
But but incitement. . . hate speech . . . stochastic terrorism. . .
4th law of robotics
Sep 2012
#34
That is 180-degrees from what I'm arguing; so perhaps we're in agreement
Nuclear Unicorn
Sep 2012
#37
Tell the Teabaggers "an African American is going to be President for 2 terms, DEAL WITH IT!!!"
Zalatix
Sep 2012
#32
This film was made in US so we were blamed and innocent people died, not the filmmaker
julian09
Sep 2012
#45