General Discussion

skypilot

(9,128 posts)

156. "...surrounding a friend's house with torches lit."

Sat Sep 15, 2012, 11:57 AM

Sep 2012

Not quite.

Just weighing in here and not wanting to be confrontational at all but from what I understand this video was around on the web for a couple months or so. So, it's not as though the embassy was already under siege and then to top it off someone released this video and made a bad situation worse. The video is what caused the house to be "surrounded". I understand your sentiment and this whole thing is very sad and ugly but I tend to agree with Zalatix on this. I think all of this also brings up an interesting issue regarding free speech in the digital age. If this film had been made in the VCR era it would have had a much more limited distribution and we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion because the film might not have been disseminated far and wide enough to cause the problems that it has caused. All kinds of speech is going to reach all kinds of audiences in this day and age. Do we want to limit some speech because we've lost control over how far it can be dissemintated and over who might be exposed to it and offended by it? Am I making sense?

Cannot edit, recommend, or reply in locked discussions

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

161 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

So it's okay to insult religious beliefs in America, but if you insult religions based overseas then [View all] Zalatix Sep 2012 OP

Pssst! xfundy Sep 2012 #1

we can make the world a better place fraankky Sep 2012 #101

I don't believe in any god kdmorris Sep 2012 #122

"rioting madmen". right. gotcha cali Sep 2012 #2

I agree MrDiaz Sep 2012 #5

Hey don't blame Obama - it was Hillary who let this crap get outta hand. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #12

Seriously? Blame Hillary? dkf Sep 2012 #147

Why didn't he wave his magic wand and get rid of this stuff? nt Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #41

This is 60 years in the making ArcticFox Sep 2012 #160

Yes, it's more about the drones and the invasions than some stupid movie. Zalatix Sep 2012 #14

but you didn't remotely say that in the OP cali Sep 2012 #17

No, because my OP is addressing people who think that the film maker should be punished. Zalatix Sep 2012 #18

So your premise is that .. 99Forever Sep 2012 #100

He's not inciting acts of violence. Yours is a strange, strange world. Fortunately it is NOT America Zalatix Sep 2012 #103

So your response is a weak attempt at a petty... 99Forever Sep 2012 #114

Wait, you can dish out the weak, petty insults, but you can't take one back at you? Awwwww. Zalatix Sep 2012 #119

The point smart guy... 99Forever Sep 2012 #123

Zalatix wasn't denying anyone's "free speech rights". The concern was over violence. Riots. riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #127

Nonsense. 99Forever Sep 2012 #128

Critisize the film all you want. eqfan592 Sep 2012 #135

Where the fuck did I EVER... 99Forever Sep 2012 #142

Excuse me, you accused me of opposing others' rights to criticize "Innocence of Muslims". Zalatix Sep 2012 #145

Where did anybody say they DIDN'T have the right to call for his punishment? eqfan592 Sep 2012 #148

99Forever made that up out of thin air and they know they did. Zalatix Sep 2012 #150

Show the post where I ever opposed anyone's right to speak out against "Innocence of Muslims". Zalatix Sep 2012 #146

See how 99Forever avoids direct and clearly-written challenges to his/her falsehoods? Zalatix Sep 2012 #149

Speaking of temper tantrums. 99Forever Sep 2012 #154

LOL you can't handle being wrong. You lost the argument. Bye! Zalatix Sep 2012 #158

"Bigoted head"? Now you are an outright malicious LIAR. You made that up out of thin air. Zalatix Sep 2012 #141

He can't address the valid point you're making cuz his arguments are so full of holes. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #129

Yep. 99Forever Sep 2012 #132

You falsely accused me of opposing others' rights to criticize the "Innocent of Muslims" film. Zalatix Sep 2012 #143

He may have the right to make such a film, as disgusting as it is, but he must also be prepared to face the consequences. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #24

Define "face the consequences" Zalatix Sep 2012 #25

As those of faith like to say, you reap what you sow - this guy deserves to be "reaped" big time for provoking people, knowing what the reaction would be. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #30

Nobody who insults religions here gets "reaped". Why do you think it should be different Zalatix Sep 2012 #31

You can't be this naive. It's different because the idiot insulted people who he had to know would not react kindly to such insults. Doh! InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #40

You can't be this ignorant of the law. The law says incitement to riot means calling for violence. Zalatix Sep 2012 #44

U even called the rioters "MADMEN" who by definition dont act RATIONALLY-so yes u CAN incite violence w/o explicitly callin 4 it if theres a reasonable expectation it will ensue. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #55

You openly accuse me of stupidity and then you REPEATEDLY engage in stupidity yourself. Zalatix Sep 2012 #57

. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #64

Thank you for proving my point once again. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #67

You have no point. Zalatix Sep 2012 #70

And your point is? LOL InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #73

You still have no point. Zalatix Sep 2012 #77

based on your stance MrDiaz Sep 2012 #104

Westboro Baptist are madmen who don't act rationally Telly Savalas Sep 2012 #136

he probably lives in the US instead of Egypt because alc Sep 2012 #81

No he should not be imprisoned treestar Sep 2012 #153

Good point but you left out a biggie... limpyhobbler Sep 2012 #37

No, this is about people rioting over a video. Waiting For Everyman Sep 2012 #54

sorry, but this didn't happen in a vacuum cali Sep 2012 #98

The riots and protests are now also occurring in first world countries like the UK and Australia riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #111

And you 'know' this because... randome Sep 2012 #66

I know this because it's fucking obvious to anyone with a functional brain cell or two. cali Sep 2012 #99

Post removed Post removed Sep 2012 #3

I think it borders on the grotesque to claim that DU cali Sep 2012 #4

Dehumanizing them is okay, though? Scootaloo Sep 2012 #7

id say anyone who thinks its okay to riot and kill because someone insults some guy in their religio loli phabay Sep 2012 #8

I don't think the majority of folks here dehumanize women or Moslems or any other group cali Sep 2012 #9

True, but the Muslim religion is often used to dehumanize women in the EXTREME and not a peep from Hillary! Maybe it's time to call her out. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #19

You deny that rioting madmen killed a US ambassador? Does anyone have a logical basis to deny that? Zalatix Sep 2012 #16

And if people know that these rioting madmen exist, don'tcha think they have a responsibility not to do things that will provoke those madmen into committing heinous acts? InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #33

No more responsibility than I have in avoiding provoking the KKK. Zalatix Sep 2012 #36

You serious? I never said the rioters are not responsible for THEIR actions - they are - but the filmmaker is ALSO responsible for inciting the rioters. What's so hard to understand? InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #45

What part of "the film maker is NOT responsible for inciting the rioters" do you not understand? Zalatix Sep 2012 #48

LOL! Who said anything about restrictin free speech? Ur embarrassin urself w/ these strawman arguments but i defend UR right of free speech & 2 make a fool of urself. 2 funny! InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #58

No restrictions, eh? Then perhaps someone hacked your account and posted this while you were gone. Zalatix Sep 2012 #62

That u stretch what I'm sayin 4 ur silly point is laughable-we punish speech when it causes harm-if u yell fire in a crowded theatre or slander.U really this ignorant or just pullin my leg? InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #69

You're being DISHONEST to deny that saying someone should be REAPED doesn't constitute punishment. Zalatix Sep 2012 #71

Its the same when u know the consequences of ur actions. Many slander suits r based on unfounded statements known 2 be false & r well deserving of punishment. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #75

Criticizing a religion is NOT "yelling fire" or slander. Sorry, your argument is still uneducated. Zalatix Sep 2012 #78

I took the "reaped"... malokvale77 Sep 2012 #125

Anyone is free to trash talk that idiot film maker. His film was idiotic. We all agree on that. Zalatix Sep 2012 #137

I deny it in the specific ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #88

So the film maker wasn't at fault by even the most irrational stretch of the imagination? Zalatix Sep 2012 #91

I believe at this point rabblerousers are citing it to whip up a frenzy ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #96

They have no idea of the consequences of their attacks on free speech. Zalatix Sep 2012 #105

The belligerents don't even understand the concept...which is part of the problem ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #120

In Australia?? The UK??? Indonesia??? Really? riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #121

Indeed ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #124

But those countries have an educated populace who know that we do riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #126

lets see if you can answer this MrDiaz Sep 2012 #6

They would be putting you in jail because... Hubert Flottz Sep 2012 #11

wtf MrDiaz Sep 2012 #15

I didn't understand that either. Quantess Sep 2012 #43

You're claiming MrDiaz is insane? Zalatix Sep 2012 #46

Yes atreides1 Sep 2012 #97

Your argument is insane. Zalatix Sep 2012 #102

lol MrDiaz Sep 2012 #110

If you're referring to my suggestion they be sued jsmirman Sep 2012 #10

So, Zalatix is continuing an attack into a "new" thread...?...eom Kolesar Sep 2012 #20

Apparently, no. jsmirman Sep 2012 #28

Nope, I'm talking about the suggestions of lawsuits over wrongful death and "inciting violence" Zalatix Sep 2012 #23

Ok, just checking jsmirman Sep 2012 #27

Boy, that escalated quickly. Lasher Sep 2012 #13

File this one under: "fucked premise" ... eom Kolesar Sep 2012 #21

Nothing fucked about my premise. n/t Zalatix Sep 2012 #22

People don't get killed for being Christian in America eridani Sep 2012 #26

Excellent point, often overlooked by warmongers. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #34

Christians are killed around the world daily. nt NCTraveler Sep 2012 #116

There's a difference.. sendero Sep 2012 #29

"villifying with extreme prejudice"... is that illegal in America? Care to cite the law on that? Zalatix Sep 2012 #39

Unrec... joeybee12 Sep 2012 #32

Yes, I am reading EXACTLY what other people are saying. Zalatix Sep 2012 #38

Okay okay, technically you may be "reading" what others are saying, but you're obviously not comprehending (or intentionally provoking like that idiot filmmaker). InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #47

I comprehend it perfectly. You will not ever show otherwise. You have no facts to back you up. Zalatix Sep 2012 #49

Oh okay, so you ARE intentionally provoking people here w/ your comments, like that idiot filmmaker, and now facing the consequences of your stupidity by being called out on it. I get it, thanks for c InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #50

I admit I have provoked you into hurling an irrational personal attack. Zalatix Sep 2012 #51

LOL! Nice try, but your making inane comments speaks for itself. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #53

Inane? You're the one who has no facts, no logic and no basis behind your arguments. Zalatix Sep 2012 #56

Really? We don't sue people 4 criticism? Ever heard of slander based on unfounded criticism intended 2 cause harm? Keep diggin, tho u really should stop embarrassing urself InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #61

Stop making a fool of yourself and name me one case where a RELIGION has sued for slander. Zalatix Sep 2012 #83

lol you should MrDiaz Sep 2012 #113

so if InAbLuEsTaTe insulted you 2pooped2pop Sep 2012 #65

Good idea! You know what, if I kill someone in anger over what InAbLuEsTaTe said Zalatix Sep 2012 #68

no really 2pooped2pop Sep 2012 #74

Just when I thought your argument couldn't get more inaccurate Zalatix Sep 2012 #79

Precisely! InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #72

So if your arguments drive me to kill someone and I say you drove me to it then you should be REAPED Zalatix Sep 2012 #80

BINGO Zax2me Sep 2012 #35

Post removed Post removed Sep 2012 #42

Well, Islam has no base, no "pope" longship Sep 2012 #52

Oh HELL NO!! You go ahead and be as insulting as you want!! renie408 Sep 2012 #59

Maybe tama Sep 2012 #60

Quit blaming basic American freedoms for this JCMach1 Sep 2012 #63

It's one thing to insult the KKK, another to insult them when they're surrounding a friend's house.. Moonwalk Sep 2012 #76

That was an excellent analogy. renie408 Sep 2012 #82

Precisely! It's irrisponsible and should be punishable. All we're sayin. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2012 #94

But it's not punishable. That's what American freedoms are all about. Zalatix Sep 2012 #112

Irrisponsible, absolutely. eqfan592 Sep 2012 #138

LOL!!! There is no such thing as mocking the KKK from a safe distance. Zalatix Sep 2012 #85

South Carolina here, and you are not kidding. renie408 Sep 2012 #87

None. Zalatix Sep 2012 #90

COOL!! renie408 Sep 2012 #106

And if I tell your neighbors that you oppose free speech, and they kill you, then I'm OK, too! Zalatix Sep 2012 #107

It's one thing to insult someone who won't fight back 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #117

So what about being an abortion doctor? dkf Sep 2012 #155

"...surrounding a friend's house with torches lit." skypilot Sep 2012 #156

We aren't already predisposed to hating what is being done in our name. Our infrastructures 2on2u Sep 2012 #84

Then as I said to Cali, the problem is not the film maker, but US imperialism. Zalatix Sep 2012 #86

Why can't it be both? renie408 Sep 2012 #89

Held accountable HOW? Zalatix Sep 2012 #93

Well, we could "unfriend" him. n/t 2on2u Sep 2012 #95

You could charge him with a crime. renie408 Sep 2012 #108

Okay, what crime? Show me a court that'll uphold that. Go ahead, I'll wait. Zalatix Sep 2012 #109

The riots and protests are now also occurring in first world countries like the UK and Australia riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #92

If christians were to murder Andres Serrano (of piss-christ fame) 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #115

of course not, he's a white Westerner. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #133

Now we are sending in troops sorefeet Sep 2012 #118

Still trying to justify letting crazy people dictate our rights? Zalatix Sep 2012 #140

Censorship is OK if victims of Western Imperialism are offended! Odin2005 Sep 2012 #130

Yes, they are. It's actually very disturbing. eqfan592 Sep 2012 #139

It's the victory of the 60's New Left over the 30's Old Left. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #144

First amendment. Works if you're money, too. nt valerief Sep 2012 #131

It is OK to insult religious beliefs anywhere Progressive dog Sep 2012 #134

Don't insult anybody's religion beliefs treestar Sep 2012 #151

Absolutely no one is denying that "Innocence of Muslims" was bad form. Zalatix Sep 2012 #152

That's not the point. liberalmuse Sep 2012 #157

Then perhaps you haven't been reading? Zalatix Sep 2012 #159

This seems morer suited to the Meta forum. On that absis I am locking this with an invitation . . . Stinky The Clown Sep 2012 #161