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In reply to the discussion: AOC FTW [View all]Celerity
(54,510 posts)56. you do not need billionaires to have effective capital formation, that is a RW talking point
The Billionaires Are Getting Nervous
Bill Gates and others warn that higher taxes would lead to lower growth. They have their facts backward.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/opinion/sunday/bill-gates-warren-tax.html
By The Editorial Board
When Bill Gates founded Microsoft in 1975, the top marginal tax rate on personal income was 70 percent, tax rates on capital gains and corporate income were significantly higher than at present, and the estate tax was a much more formidable levy. None of that dissuaded Mr. Gates from pouring himself into his business, nor discouraged his investors from pouring in their money.
Yet he is now the latest affluent American to warn that Senator Elizabeth Warrens plan for much higher taxes on the rich would be bad not just for the wealthy but for the rest of America, too.
Mr. Gates, the co-founder of Microsoft, suggested on Wednesday that a big tax increase would result in less economic growth. I do think if you tax too much you do risk the capital formation, innovation, U.S. as the desirable place to do innovative companies I do think you risk that, he said.
Other perturbed plutocrats have made the same point with less finesse. The billionaire investor Leon Cooperman was downright crude when he declared that Ms. Warren was wrecking the American dream. Jamie Dimon, the chief executive of JPMorgan Chase, complained on CNBC that Ms. Warren uses some pretty harsh words about the rich. He added, Some would say vilifies successful people.
Lets get a few things straight.
The wealthiest Americans are paying a much smaller share of income in taxes than they did a half-century ago. In 1961, Americans with the highest incomes paid an average of 51.5 percent of that income in federal, state and local taxes. In 2011, Americans with the highest incomes paid just 33.2 percent of their income in taxes, according to a study by Thomas Piketty, Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman published last year. Data for the last few years is not yet available but would most likely show a relatively similar tax burden.
snip
Bill Gates and others warn that higher taxes would lead to lower growth. They have their facts backward.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/opinion/sunday/bill-gates-warren-tax.html
By The Editorial Board
When Bill Gates founded Microsoft in 1975, the top marginal tax rate on personal income was 70 percent, tax rates on capital gains and corporate income were significantly higher than at present, and the estate tax was a much more formidable levy. None of that dissuaded Mr. Gates from pouring himself into his business, nor discouraged his investors from pouring in their money.
Yet he is now the latest affluent American to warn that Senator Elizabeth Warrens plan for much higher taxes on the rich would be bad not just for the wealthy but for the rest of America, too.
Mr. Gates, the co-founder of Microsoft, suggested on Wednesday that a big tax increase would result in less economic growth. I do think if you tax too much you do risk the capital formation, innovation, U.S. as the desirable place to do innovative companies I do think you risk that, he said.
Other perturbed plutocrats have made the same point with less finesse. The billionaire investor Leon Cooperman was downright crude when he declared that Ms. Warren was wrecking the American dream. Jamie Dimon, the chief executive of JPMorgan Chase, complained on CNBC that Ms. Warren uses some pretty harsh words about the rich. He added, Some would say vilifies successful people.
Lets get a few things straight.
The wealthiest Americans are paying a much smaller share of income in taxes than they did a half-century ago. In 1961, Americans with the highest incomes paid an average of 51.5 percent of that income in federal, state and local taxes. In 2011, Americans with the highest incomes paid just 33.2 percent of their income in taxes, according to a study by Thomas Piketty, Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman published last year. Data for the last few years is not yet available but would most likely show a relatively similar tax burden.
snip
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Now if we can just get the entire working class to unite and fight we might win.
cayugafalls
Aug 2020
#4
Great quote from Lincoln. It's been my signature line here on DU fro a while. Don't remember...
EarnestPutz
Aug 2020
#41
If this were true we'd still be waiting for someone to develop fire and the wheel.
rwsanders
Aug 2020
#65
I think there can be leadership without a group of "leaders" who do no work and contribute nothing.
rwsanders
Aug 2020
#110
The problem there is that once you reach a certain point, the organization then becomes a monster
rwsanders
Aug 2020
#145
Sorry, been there done that. Haven't seen any benefit of size other than to concentrate wealth
rwsanders
Aug 2020
#156
All of the above. Look to history. FDR had it right. Second Bill of Rights, 90% marginal tax rate
rwsanders
Aug 2020
#21
Not an area of history I'm familiar with, but I doubt that the booming economy was
rwsanders
Aug 2020
#64
I don't think it is just a slogan, and maybe billionaires aren't the entire problem, maybe
rwsanders
Aug 2020
#136
But she didn't call for anything to be done to billionaires, just pointed out an indisputable fact
manhattan123
Aug 2020
#32
I'm having a hard time deciding which is the key word - "irrational" or "insult".
George II
Aug 2020
#81
Back when I lived in Manhattan I used to walk past this hotel a couple of times a week:
George II
Aug 2020
#88
I don't know what she said in January, I don't fixate on her as some around here seem to.
manhattan123
Aug 2020
#33
And the answer is that she doesn't believe billionaires exist. Don't know what she intends to do....
George II
Aug 2020
#34
Typo - she doesn't believe billionaires SHOULD exist (as I said in the previous post)....
George II
Aug 2020
#38
We don't know. But we do know she's voted against the Democratic majority....
George II
Aug 2020
#99
plutophobia is a another RW talking point on edit (as the post was hidden) the poster I am
Celerity
Aug 2020
#57
How is it a right-wing talking point? Too many syllables for the modern American right-winger.
betsuni
Aug 2020
#66
Defence of a plutocracy is a priori RW, and also, by its very nature, anti-democracy.
Celerity
Aug 2020
#67
Yes it was, most definitely so, for the reasons I already laid out, including my reply in regards
Celerity
Aug 2020
#69
The point of America is that it's a Disney Land capitalist casino. You can visit wearing
betsuni
Aug 2020
#70
you are projecting far more into this than what the post I replied to said, and also what I said
Celerity
Aug 2020
#71
you do not need billionaires to have effective capital formation, that is a RW talking point
Celerity
Aug 2020
#56
"AOC haters"? That's rather divisive, isn't it? We can't discuss what politicians...
George II
Aug 2020
#83
Oh, suddenly holding feet to the fire and constructive criticism is bad and "hating."
betsuni
Aug 2020
#89
The world would be far better off without Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Tesla, SpaceX
fescuerescue
Aug 2020
#87