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lunatica

(53,410 posts)

36. Will getting an answer to your question about what degree of evil is comparable

Reply to cthulu2016 (Reply #34)

Sun Jan 8, 2012, 06:21 PM

Jan 2012

to the worst evil as to how and why Jews were killed in Concentration camps make an difference at all? Does gasing and shooting them count more as deliberate genocide than working them to death while they starved?

Cold hard facts may be all good and fine, but I'm not convinced that facts are being stated here, as much as excuses being given that are supposed to make White Americans nicer people by dint of being ignorant. Killing the Native Americans was actually US government policy, especially Andrew Jackson forcing the Cherokee on the Trail of Tears when he was President. That was deliberately done to kill them and it was totally avoidable. The diseases just made it all easier for the White man and his Manifest Destiny to come about.

Human history is full of genocide and holocausts, but one has to admit to being part of a country that does such things before working towards stopping them here. Our lily white asses aren't all that lily white when you start looking into our treatment of Native Americans and blacks. And at least the Republican faction of the lily white asses are doing their best to keep up the economic holocaust forced on the Native Americans and African Americans.

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Highlight:

American Holocaust [View all] MichaelMcGuire Jan 2012 OP

Original Homeland Security no_hypocrisy Jan 2012 #1

I got that on a t-shirt William769 Jan 2012 #74

Me too. Got it at a Native American gathering in Virginia, 10 miles from Lynchburg. no_hypocrisy Jan 2012 #94

K&R MichaelMcGuire Jan 2012 #2

Unlike... CJvR Jan 2012 #3

did you know that some soldiers purposefully dana_b Jan 2012 #4

Bio warfare... CJvR Jan 2012 #7

wow, trying to diminish the fact we (America) purposely killed native Americans? rustydog Jan 2012 #8

Actually... CJvR Jan 2012 #12

minimilizing and rationalizing the killing of others rustydog Jan 2012 #15

Jesus... did we run out of dictionaries? cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #21

then you have no comprehension in your reading skills. rustydog Jan 2012 #23

Okay, I went back to re-read the post and you are partially right cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #28

I agree that you are reading something into it that is not there. Quantess Jan 2012 #29

Not at all. EFerrari Jan 2012 #54

Actually the population of North America was quite high. blackspade Jan 2012 #71

It was actually government policy. blackspade Jan 2012 #70

Yeah - like introducing those plaques with gifts such as blankets? jwirr Jan 2012 #5

Pointless... CJvR Jan 2012 #9

By your own lame point, it was pointless to proseute the Nazis because rustydog Jan 2012 #10

So... CJvR Jan 2012 #17

Black Death was spread like all diseases are through some mechanism that spreads a germ or virus. jwirr Jan 2012 #44

Actually I believe it originated in China RZM Jan 2012 #46

I think we've back-pedaled on that cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #47

Last I heard, they definitively traced 'yersinia pestis' to China RZM Jan 2012 #51

Cool. That's more recent than my info. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #58

Here's a NYT article on the 2010 study RZM Jan 2012 #61

That had no ultimate effect on anything cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #18

Minimizing the effects of the what happened to the Indians is so......................conservative uponit7771 Jan 2012 #11

inaccuarcy is not a liberal value cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #19

You are correct, but it suggests a question... cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #14

Well... CJvR Jan 2012 #20

I don't think the Aztecs would have fell Shankapotomus Jan 2012 #26

Yes. CJvR Jan 2012 #35

The Tlaxcalans actually used the Spanish as cannon fodder (so to speak). blackspade Jan 2012 #73

Absolutely RZM Jan 2012 #48

That's ludicrous. This country was INVADED and CONQUERED by force and maliciousness. Zorra Jan 2012 #22

You focus on one aspect of the American Holocaust and call it "mostely unavoidable". LiberalAndProud Jan 2012 #68

This is one of the reasons why I hate that Andrew Jackson is lauded as this great historical giant. blackspade Jan 2012 #78

Andrew Jackson stands alone in my estimation. LiberalAndProud Jan 2012 #80

He had plenty of support, but I agree with your overall pooint 1000% blackspade Jan 2012 #86

I seem to recall something about Gen.Sherman. raouldukelives Jan 2012 #83

Buffalo? CJvR Jan 2012 #106

A bit more time... LiberalAndProud Jan 2012 #107

Well... CJvR Jan 2012 #108

Hey, I bet you could offer up your superb PR skills to the Republicans.... Umbral Jan 2012 #88

thank you for the link dana_b Jan 2012 #6

Our claim to North America was greater than Germany's claim to Poland because cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #13

When ARE we going to prosecute those Hittites?!? n/t tabasco Jan 2012 #16

Bad, but not like the Nazi Holocaust treestar Jan 2012 #24

As were many native americans. The holocaust comparison is apt. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #25

We didn't round them up in camps specifically to kill them treestar Jan 2012 #27

A few points: cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #30

The Warsaw uprising treestar Jan 2012 #31

The trail of tears. Resettlements in Florida (yellow fever). Reservations in near deserts. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #32

Any place run over by a group of people will have those features treestar Jan 2012 #33

The planned depopulation of land is a standard feature of colonialism cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #34

Will getting an answer to your question about what degree of evil is comparable lunatica Jan 2012 #36

The point of my question was pretty plain cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #37

By that definition then there have been many Holocausts treestar Jan 2012 #60

There's actually a strain of post-colonialist arguments that say just that RZM Jan 2012 #62

I will admit it was one of the most organized and documented holocausts in history lunatica Jan 2012 #92

Wait a moment! Why is guilt for these crimes based on *skin color*, rather than *nationality*? Romulox Jan 2012 #43

Your *skin color* reference makes no sense to me. lunatica Jan 2012 #91

You don't remember posting: " excuses being given that are supposed to make White Americans nicer" Romulox Jan 2012 #97

I meant what I said lunatica Jan 2012 #99

It was odd for you to briefly try to deny saying it then, wasn't it? Romulox Jan 2012 #100

"He went the extra mile and said one race was not worthy of existing" Treestar, the same Number23 Jan 2012 #39

Believe it or not RZM Jan 2012 #64

Agree with all points except this one: blackspade Jan 2012 #85

Unfuckingbelievable. "the Nazi Holocaust of the Jews was far worse" Really? Zorra Jan 2012 #82

+ 1 lunatica Jan 2012 #93

I would agree that in many ways, the Nazi Holocaust is unique in history. LiberalAndProud Jan 2012 #87

"Genocide" does not mean "mass killings in industrialized death camps and nothing else." (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2012 #109

"The holocaust comparison is apt." Completely agree Number23 Jan 2012 #38

I actually don't think that's true RZM Jan 2012 #50

First, the idea that murdering for land is less evil than murdering for theory is lost on me. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #55

I just can't buy the 'it's economics' argument in the Nazi context RZM Jan 2012 #66

I hear you (I am thinking politics in practice more than personal psychology) cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #84

The emphasis on Poland is fine, as long as one acknowledges that less than half the Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #96

Part of the reason for that RZM Jan 2012 #102

A sad scene -- some eastern Jews fled west from the invading USSR seeking refuge with th German army cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #105

"The only good Indians I ever saw were dead." Adsos Letter Jan 2012 #67

It really isn't all that apt. Behind the Aegis Jan 2012 #89

Also, Holocaust is a noun and is the name for the genocide of European Jews... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #90

your garbage is disgusting U4ikLefty Jan 2012 #53

Why would it be wrong to point out that the Jews were treated much, much worse? treestar Jan 2012 #57

Disgusting argument. Zalatix Jan 2012 #76

You've got to be kidding me, seriously? Zalatix Jan 2012 #75

What about blacks? DeathToTheOil Jan 2012 #40

Not nearly as many (which doesn't minimize anything) cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #45

Originially the Europeans used natives as slaves RZM Jan 2012 #52

An important factor about imported slave labor cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #56

What about 'maroon' communities? RZM Jan 2012 #59

"I don't recall" DeathToTheOil Jan 2012 #65

Sorry. I'm not sure what the problem is. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #77

I think an exception to the mortality of slaves after arrival would be the sugar colonies Adsos Letter Jan 2012 #69

You are correct cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #72

I only mentioned it because the sub-thread had drifted into the subject of slavery. Adsos Letter Jan 2012 #104

More than 2 million Africans died during the Middle Passage from Africa to America alone Number23 Jan 2012 #79

In answer to your question cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #81

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #41

You make many valid points. JNelson6563 Jan 2012 #63

k&r n/t RainDog Jan 2012 #42

Yep... WillyT Jan 2012 #49

That'll be part of my next order MichaelMcGuire Jan 2012 #98

The US Government attempted to vaccinate the Native Americans against smallpox. Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #95

Possibly even worse. chrisa Jan 2012 #101

I guess you could do worse than to listen to the people effected MichaelMcGuire Jan 2012 #103

The comments on this thread are downright Turkish. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2012 #110