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RZM

(8,556 posts)

59. What about 'maroon' communities?

Reply to cthulu2016 (Reply #56)

Sun Jan 8, 2012, 11:02 PM

Jan 2012

These were areas of the wilderness where escaped slaves would congregate. They existed all over the place in the New World, especially sugar-producing areas, where the concentration of slaves was higher. Some Jamaican maroons cut a deal with the British for their freedom back in the 18th century. One maroon community in Brazil reached a population of 30,000 at its height and lasted for close to 100 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmares_%28quilombo%29

I'm not saying that Africans are 'natural' slaves. But just about all of the written evidence from the time seems to suggest that natives were not well-suited to the intensive labor the Europeans subjected them to because they died in too high of numbers for the plantations and mines to remain profitable. There was a labor shortage and Africans were brought in to fill it.

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American Holocaust [View all] MichaelMcGuire Jan 2012 OP

Original Homeland Security no_hypocrisy Jan 2012 #1

I got that on a t-shirt William769 Jan 2012 #74

Me too. Got it at a Native American gathering in Virginia, 10 miles from Lynchburg. no_hypocrisy Jan 2012 #94

K&R MichaelMcGuire Jan 2012 #2

Unlike... CJvR Jan 2012 #3

did you know that some soldiers purposefully dana_b Jan 2012 #4

Bio warfare... CJvR Jan 2012 #7

wow, trying to diminish the fact we (America) purposely killed native Americans? rustydog Jan 2012 #8

Actually... CJvR Jan 2012 #12

minimilizing and rationalizing the killing of others rustydog Jan 2012 #15

Jesus... did we run out of dictionaries? cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #21

then you have no comprehension in your reading skills. rustydog Jan 2012 #23

Okay, I went back to re-read the post and you are partially right cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #28

I agree that you are reading something into it that is not there. Quantess Jan 2012 #29

Not at all. EFerrari Jan 2012 #54

Actually the population of North America was quite high. blackspade Jan 2012 #71

It was actually government policy. blackspade Jan 2012 #70

Yeah - like introducing those plaques with gifts such as blankets? jwirr Jan 2012 #5

Pointless... CJvR Jan 2012 #9

By your own lame point, it was pointless to proseute the Nazis because rustydog Jan 2012 #10

So... CJvR Jan 2012 #17

Black Death was spread like all diseases are through some mechanism that spreads a germ or virus. jwirr Jan 2012 #44

Actually I believe it originated in China RZM Jan 2012 #46

I think we've back-pedaled on that cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #47

Last I heard, they definitively traced 'yersinia pestis' to China RZM Jan 2012 #51

Cool. That's more recent than my info. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #58

Here's a NYT article on the 2010 study RZM Jan 2012 #61

That had no ultimate effect on anything cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #18

Minimizing the effects of the what happened to the Indians is so......................conservative uponit7771 Jan 2012 #11

inaccuarcy is not a liberal value cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #19

You are correct, but it suggests a question... cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #14

Well... CJvR Jan 2012 #20

I don't think the Aztecs would have fell Shankapotomus Jan 2012 #26

Yes. CJvR Jan 2012 #35

The Tlaxcalans actually used the Spanish as cannon fodder (so to speak). blackspade Jan 2012 #73

Absolutely RZM Jan 2012 #48

That's ludicrous. This country was INVADED and CONQUERED by force and maliciousness. Zorra Jan 2012 #22

You focus on one aspect of the American Holocaust and call it "mostely unavoidable". LiberalAndProud Jan 2012 #68

This is one of the reasons why I hate that Andrew Jackson is lauded as this great historical giant. blackspade Jan 2012 #78

Andrew Jackson stands alone in my estimation. LiberalAndProud Jan 2012 #80

He had plenty of support, but I agree with your overall pooint 1000% blackspade Jan 2012 #86

I seem to recall something about Gen.Sherman. raouldukelives Jan 2012 #83

Buffalo? CJvR Jan 2012 #106

A bit more time... LiberalAndProud Jan 2012 #107

Well... CJvR Jan 2012 #108

Hey, I bet you could offer up your superb PR skills to the Republicans.... Umbral Jan 2012 #88

thank you for the link dana_b Jan 2012 #6

Our claim to North America was greater than Germany's claim to Poland because cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #13

When ARE we going to prosecute those Hittites?!? n/t tabasco Jan 2012 #16

Bad, but not like the Nazi Holocaust treestar Jan 2012 #24

As were many native americans. The holocaust comparison is apt. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #25

We didn't round them up in camps specifically to kill them treestar Jan 2012 #27

A few points: cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #30

The Warsaw uprising treestar Jan 2012 #31

The trail of tears. Resettlements in Florida (yellow fever). Reservations in near deserts. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #32

Any place run over by a group of people will have those features treestar Jan 2012 #33

The planned depopulation of land is a standard feature of colonialism cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #34

Will getting an answer to your question about what degree of evil is comparable lunatica Jan 2012 #36

The point of my question was pretty plain cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #37

By that definition then there have been many Holocausts treestar Jan 2012 #60

There's actually a strain of post-colonialist arguments that say just that RZM Jan 2012 #62

I will admit it was one of the most organized and documented holocausts in history lunatica Jan 2012 #92

Wait a moment! Why is guilt for these crimes based on *skin color*, rather than *nationality*? Romulox Jan 2012 #43

Your *skin color* reference makes no sense to me. lunatica Jan 2012 #91

You don't remember posting: " excuses being given that are supposed to make White Americans nicer" Romulox Jan 2012 #97

I meant what I said lunatica Jan 2012 #99

It was odd for you to briefly try to deny saying it then, wasn't it? Romulox Jan 2012 #100

"He went the extra mile and said one race was not worthy of existing" Treestar, the same Number23 Jan 2012 #39

Believe it or not RZM Jan 2012 #64

Agree with all points except this one: blackspade Jan 2012 #85

Unfuckingbelievable. "the Nazi Holocaust of the Jews was far worse" Really? Zorra Jan 2012 #82

+ 1 lunatica Jan 2012 #93

I would agree that in many ways, the Nazi Holocaust is unique in history. LiberalAndProud Jan 2012 #87

"Genocide" does not mean "mass killings in industrialized death camps and nothing else." (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2012 #109

"The holocaust comparison is apt." Completely agree Number23 Jan 2012 #38

I actually don't think that's true RZM Jan 2012 #50

First, the idea that murdering for land is less evil than murdering for theory is lost on me. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #55

I just can't buy the 'it's economics' argument in the Nazi context RZM Jan 2012 #66

I hear you (I am thinking politics in practice more than personal psychology) cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #84

The emphasis on Poland is fine, as long as one acknowledges that less than half the Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #96

Part of the reason for that RZM Jan 2012 #102

A sad scene -- some eastern Jews fled west from the invading USSR seeking refuge with th German army cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #105

"The only good Indians I ever saw were dead." Adsos Letter Jan 2012 #67

It really isn't all that apt. Behind the Aegis Jan 2012 #89

Also, Holocaust is a noun and is the name for the genocide of European Jews... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #90

your garbage is disgusting U4ikLefty Jan 2012 #53

Why would it be wrong to point out that the Jews were treated much, much worse? treestar Jan 2012 #57

Disgusting argument. Zalatix Jan 2012 #76

You've got to be kidding me, seriously? Zalatix Jan 2012 #75

What about blacks? DeathToTheOil Jan 2012 #40

Not nearly as many (which doesn't minimize anything) cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #45

Originially the Europeans used natives as slaves RZM Jan 2012 #52

An important factor about imported slave labor cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #56

What about 'maroon' communities? RZM Jan 2012 #59

"I don't recall" DeathToTheOil Jan 2012 #65

Sorry. I'm not sure what the problem is. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #77

I think an exception to the mortality of slaves after arrival would be the sugar colonies Adsos Letter Jan 2012 #69

You are correct cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #72

I only mentioned it because the sub-thread had drifted into the subject of slavery. Adsos Letter Jan 2012 #104

More than 2 million Africans died during the Middle Passage from Africa to America alone Number23 Jan 2012 #79

In answer to your question cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #81

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #41

You make many valid points. JNelson6563 Jan 2012 #63

k&r n/t RainDog Jan 2012 #42

Yep... WillyT Jan 2012 #49

That'll be part of my next order MichaelMcGuire Jan 2012 #98

The US Government attempted to vaccinate the Native Americans against smallpox. Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #95

Possibly even worse. chrisa Jan 2012 #101

I guess you could do worse than to listen to the people effected MichaelMcGuire Jan 2012 #103

The comments on this thread are downright Turkish. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2012 #110