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In reply to the discussion: Just watching the BBC [View all]

Renew Deal

(81,856 posts)
23. It has to do with whether a member of congress is an "officer"
Sat Oct 3, 2020, 09:54 PM
Oct 2020

Clause 6: Vacancy and disability

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
(Note: This clause was partially superseded by the 25th Amendment in 1967.)


The wording of this clause caused much controversy at the time it was first used. When William Henry Harrison died in office, a debate arose over whether the vice president would become president, or if he would just inherit the powers, thus becoming an acting president. Harrison's vice president, John Tyler, believed that he had the right to become president. However, many senators argued that he only had the right to assume the powers of the presidency long enough to call for a new election. Because the wording of the clause is so vague, it was impossible for either side to prove its point. Tyler took the Oath of Office as president, setting a precedent that made it possible for later vice presidents to ascend to the presidency unchallenged following the president's death. The "Tyler Precedent" established that if the president dies, resigns or is removed from office, the vice president becomes president.

The Congress may provide for a line of succession beyond the vice president. The current Presidential Succession Act establishes the order as the speaker of the House of Representatives, the president pro tempore of the Senate and then the fifteen Cabinet secretaries in order of each department's establishment. There are concerns regarding the constitutionality of having members of Congress in the line of succession, however, as this clause specifies that only an "officer of the United States" may be designated as a presidential successor. Constitutional scholars from James Madison to the present day have argued that the term "officer" excludes members of Congress.

The 25th Amendment explicitly states that if the president dies, resigns or is removed from office, the vice president becomes president, and also establishes a procedure for filling a vacancy in the office of the vice president. The Amendment further provides that the president, or the vice president and Cabinet, can declare the president unable to discharge his duties, in which case the vice president becomes Acting president. If the declaration is done by the vice president and Cabinet, the Amendment permits the president to take control back, unless the vice president and Cabinet challenge the president and two-thirds of both Houses vote to sustain the findings of the vice president and Cabinet. If the declaration is done by the president, he may take control back without risk of being overridden by the Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_6:_Vacancy_and_disability
Just watching the BBC [View all] Coleman Oct 2020 OP
25th Amendment unconstitutional? muntrv Oct 2020 #1
Not the 25th amendment. nsd Oct 2020 #14
We will have to get Amy's opinion on that Under The Radar Oct 2020 #35
For reals? Holy cow soothsayer Oct 2020 #2
Holy Coup, rather Hekate Oct 2020 #11
He was shown hugging Kellyanne vapor2 Oct 2020 #32
Sounds like they expect someone to die C_U_L8R Oct 2020 #3
They expect two people to die sounds like soothsayer Oct 2020 #6
Hopefully 4.....Barr n Pompass Tribetime Oct 2020 #29
Then it will have to go before SCOTUS. They can say it all they want, doesn't mean it will happen Thekaspervote Oct 2020 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author vapor2 Oct 2020 #33
It's Not. LovingA2andMI Oct 2020 #5
Oh no kidding!! I'm a BBC fan, but I really wish they would stay out of these kinds things Thekaspervote Oct 2020 #15
Why are you attacking the messenger? They are just reporting what they have heard from two Ferrets are Cool Oct 2020 #34
I always thought BBC was fairly reliable. Don't shoot the messenger; they might be warning us. Hekate Oct 2020 #20
True!! Just frustrated. Lots of illegal things are floated by these goons. it seems they Thekaspervote Oct 2020 #25
It's a potential problem. Renew Deal Oct 2020 #24
Why wouldn't Pence be able to serve ? JI7 Oct 2020 #7
What? That's insane. Laelth Oct 2020 #8
This post seems.... LovingA2andMI Oct 2020 #13
LOL. Take a chill pill. Look at my journal. Laelth Oct 2020 #22
butting in to say that BootinUp Oct 2020 #31
Oh, yes. Laelth Oct 2020 #41
Yea, try that. See how it works out for you.... paleotn Oct 2020 #9
Government by litigation. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2020 #19
I read the same thing yesterday. BigmanPigman Oct 2020 #10
When did they have this discussion...? ecstatic Oct 2020 #12
Not sure about this EndlessWire Oct 2020 #16
All right Alexander Haig Pompeo and Heinrich Himmler Barr--- even a corrupt SCOTUS can and WILL hlthe2b Oct 2020 #17
No Way colsohlibgal Oct 2020 #18
I really don't know who's worse...dotard or barr! Thekaspervote Oct 2020 #21
It has to do with whether a member of congress is an "officer" Renew Deal Oct 2020 #23
Yes, this . . . MousePlayingDaffodil Oct 2020 #27
With an honest SC, the succession line would remain. Having the speaker in third place makes sense Karadeniz Oct 2020 #26
Pence better be watching his back and get a food/drink tester. nce avebury Oct 2020 #28
It's a bloody coup attempt. Baitball Blogger Oct 2020 #30
Human garbage BainsBane Oct 2020 #36
Good grief, Disaffected Oct 2020 #37
The Speaker of the House . . . MousePlayingDaffodil Oct 2020 #38
OK, thanks. Disaffected Oct 2020 #43
Translation: Thrax Oct 2020 #39
Welcome to DU MustLoveBeagles Oct 2020 #40
If Pence is positive, he has better NOT do that debate in person. roamer65 Oct 2020 #46
The argument is . . . MousePlayingDaffodil Oct 2020 #42
You missed the point. Thrax Oct 2020 #44
I'm afraid you've missed the point ... MousePlayingDaffodil Oct 2020 #47
How do *you* think the courts would act? muriel_volestrangler Oct 2020 #48
While you could challenge the specifics of the Presidential Succession Act... brooklynite Oct 2020 #45
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