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The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)

54. The Rationalization Is On Your Part, Sir, Not Mine

Mon Oct 12, 2020, 03:16 PM

Oct 2020

Low turn-out, even some skullduggery in election management, are normal and expected. They occur in every election, and are 'priced into the market', as the saying goes. A high profile third party candidate is an unusual factor, not something that occurs often. If there is an unusual result, and an unusual factor present, the likelihood is they are connected.

Two additional items worth mentioning.

Southern states like Florida have a good portion of 'legacy Democrats' --- persons who maintain registry as Democrats, but have not voted for a Democrat as President since Reagan. Facile statements about Democratic turn-out in such states seldom allows for this. A good number of those 'Democrats' who did not vote might well have voted for Bush.

Polling data was compiled on Nader voters, and while about half said they would not have voted were he not on the ballot, the other half broke decisively for Gore against Bush.

There is no reason whatever to believe that Mr. Gore would have lost Florida were Nader not on the ballot.

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Ms. Sarandon, self-righteous liberals, Hillary Haters, all the rest, SEE what's happening TODAY? [View all] Stinky The Clown Oct 2020 OP

The Sarandmaid's Tale Blue Owl Oct 2020 #1

OMG you are equating left of center with a mysogynistic reference? FreddyWhite Oct 2020 #154

I'm not sure I would consider Sarandon an "ally." thucythucy Oct 2020 #171

Susie is why Gore lost and Hillary lost, she is a fucking Green and disgrace...she is basically a Demsrule86 Oct 2020 #175

No more fucking vanity voting FFS! we can do it Oct 2020 #2

What vanity? CaptYossarian Oct 2020 #9

Umm people voting for idiots like stein? we can do it Oct 2020 #10

Yeah 2016 is still unbelievable in my mind. It is hard to accept the stupidity not of the ... Statistical Oct 2020 #3

+1 ProfessorGAC Oct 2020 #32

True that! WinstonSmith4740 Oct 2020 #120

You're damn right. BlancheSplanchnik Oct 2020 #126

+1 betsuni Oct 2020 #129

Nazi?? This discussion plays into Putin and Trump FreddyWhite Oct 2020 #155

Come on it was very obvious I wasn't talking about the primary. Statistical Oct 2020 #168

AMEN, Statistical! AMEN! calimary Oct 2020 #167

Yes it is bottomofthehill Oct 2020 #4

Co-signed VivaResitance Oct 2020 #5

I agree and I will not ever forget. Every discussion I start with SC and not one person acknowledged LizBeth Oct 2020 #6

The ground is littered with noses scornfully cut off "pure" spited faces. nt Atticus Oct 2020 #7

B-bros? JonLP24 Oct 2020 #8

If the OP doesn't apply to you, it doesn't apply to you. yardwork Oct 2020 #60

You can just as easily place blame on RBG for not retiring in 2014. PTWB Oct 2020 #11

Actually, I agree completely that RBG should have retired then. Stinky The Clown Oct 2020 #12

I agree also ace3csusm Oct 2020 #74

Said Hillary Would Win OhioTim Oct 2020 #106

Good post. Hamer555 Oct 2020 #14

Granting statehood to Washington DC and Puerto Rico might fix a whole lot. calimary Oct 2020 #94

DC would have one rep, PR would have four. Statistical Oct 2020 #169

Of course. The assholes are never responsible. kcr Oct 2020 #15

Voter suppression Condor1 Oct 2020 #22

Pull My Other Finger, Sweetheart The Magistrate Oct 2020 #30

+100 and bronxiteforever Oct 2020 #43

Well, it's like saying that Nader druidity33 Oct 2020 #46

The Rationalization Is On Your Part, Sir, Not Mine The Magistrate Oct 2020 #54

So a 2 Party system for you then... druidity33 Oct 2020 #105

I Deal With What Actually Is, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2020 #110

Which explains why druidity33 Oct 2020 #112

this diary is relevant in the sense that purist idiots not voting matter. but analyzing elections certainot Oct 2020 #113

I agree with you 100% about talk radio... druidity33 Oct 2020 #115

as many incentives as possible - but try passing any of that while 1500 radio stations get to certainot Oct 2020 #137

Let's not forget the butterfly ballot. AirmensMom Oct 2020 #173

Don't confuse the discussion with facts. rwsanders Oct 2020 #176

I am so sorry. AirmensMom Oct 2020 #177

... sheshe2 Oct 2020 #140

The "Hillary equals Trump" mantra was a form of voter suppression. oasis Oct 2020 #38

Post removed Post removed Oct 2020 #41

Try again mcar Oct 2020 #57

I agree!! FreddyWhite Oct 2020 #156

There were 3 major factors mercuryblues Oct 2020 #165

In which "blue wall" states did we NOT campaign enough? George II Oct 2020 #24

Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin PTWB Oct 2020 #42

So you're telling me/us that Clinton lost because she spent only 4* days in Michigan and.... George II Oct 2020 #114

Absolutely not. PTWB Oct 2020 #119

Meanwhile, here in 2020, we have prominent "progressive" surrogates bashing the Democrats.... George II Oct 2020 #122

🤷🏻‍♂️ PTWB Oct 2020 #123

She was the top surrogate (co-chair) for our ultimate second-place candidate. That tells me a lot... George II Oct 2020 #124

Some folks don't have the capacity to see anything but what they want to see. PTWB Oct 2020 #127

What I saw was a woman who bashed the Democratic Party relentlessly as co-chair of.... George II Oct 2020 #131

Absolutely. PTWB Oct 2020 #133

She was far more important than some "crackpot" who worked on the campaign. She was paid.... George II Oct 2020 #134

So you've convinced yourself that staffers on a campaign have more pull than the candidate? PTWB Oct 2020 #135

Where is he? nt sheshe2 Oct 2020 #141

Bernie? PTWB Oct 2020 #142

"The critique of Clinton's campaign ... faulted her for not investing enough in field organization, betsuni Oct 2020 #118

Good point FreddyWhite Oct 2020 #157

The plain fact of the matter is that it was an incredible gamble on the part of Ginsberg to believe Midwestern Democrat Oct 2020 #161

No, No, No!!! brooklynite Oct 2020 #13

To Channel Judge Schmales... ProfessorGAC Oct 2020 #36

Makes me sick too. Miigwech Oct 2020 #16

Of course, but ... CloudWatcher Oct 2020 #17

Agree! Golfnbrew Oct 2020 #23

As well almost twice as many Hillary supporters voted McCain or Stein or didn't vote for Obama LiberalLovinLug Oct 2020 #49

That's true. The MSM was a key part of Trump's campaign. yardwork Oct 2020 #64

Change Buttons Roy Rolling Oct 2020 #18

Did the Democratic Party learn anything from it? NameAlreadyTaken Oct 2020 #19

In the short term it seems like it. Statistical Oct 2020 #25

Post removed Post removed Oct 2020 #56

I'm not going to alert on this but somebody might. Reconsider your post. yardwork Oct 2020 #67

Dont worry TheDemsshouldhireme Oct 2020 #20

Exactly. There is no status quo. Every election the country moves. Statistical Oct 2020 #28

Take those 2 elections TheDemsshouldhireme Oct 2020 #39

What you said, my friend. calimary Oct 2020 #84

You daily hour of Sarandon hate begins now... aidbo Oct 2020 #21

All of it richly deserved BannonsLiver Oct 2020 #178

Who do you believe bears more responsibility for HRC's loss, Sarandon or Hilary herself? aidbo Oct 2020 #188

It was a group effort BannonsLiver Oct 2020 #189

You do understand ... Jopin Klobe Oct 2020 #26

Jill Stein got more votes than Clinton lost by in the three states that mattered. Statistical Oct 2020 #29

Stein voters were never going to vote for Hillary LiberalLovinLug Oct 2020 #44

Not a single third party voter was ever going to vote for Clinton? Statistical Oct 2020 #48

"but there isn't a progressive bone in their body" LiberalLovinLug Oct 2020 #59

Who said anything about single handedly. Statistical Oct 2020 #62

Bringing up the conspiratorial notion that Stein and Putin are "buddies" because she accepted LiberalLovinLug Oct 2020 #85

or fuck em. Statistical Oct 2020 #87

And if there were no Libertarian Party LiberalLovinLug Oct 2020 #99

"Accepted an invitation and was involuntarily seated at the same table" MrsCoffee Oct 2020 #163

Yes what an outrageously unbelievable statement! LiberalLovinLug Oct 2020 #183

Hillary ran on $15 min. wage, public option ACA with Medicare at 55, holding Wall Street betsuni Oct 2020 #89

I agree LiberalLovinLug Oct 2020 #97

I understand Russia helped Trump, not Hillary Skittles Oct 2020 #121

3 Trump "Judges." Those Stein voters screwed the country for decades. kairos12 Oct 2020 #27

Yeah Handmaid Barrett is young enough she could serve 30 possibly 40 years on the bench. Statistical Oct 2020 #31

Without adding seats to SCOTUS it won't matter kairos12 Oct 2020 #35

Buh buh buh! Grokenstein Oct 2020 #33

+1 betsuni Oct 2020 #92

I trust you are equally mad about Mike Bloomberg endorsing and raising money for the deciding vote liskddksil Oct 2020 #34

Murdochs will still be able to get abortions and healthcare anywhere. What do they care that they Pepsidog Oct 2020 #37

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2020 #40

Good post. Hamer555 Oct 2020 #73

"You catch even more flies with manure. What's your point?" Wednesdays Oct 2020 #90

Oh no's! Her ONE vote was the tipping point for Trump!!! LiberalLovinLug Oct 2020 #45

News flash! It's not about "one vote", it's about influencing thousands oasis Oct 2020 #50

Such immense power she has!!!!!! LiberalLovinLug Oct 2020 #65

we should also look at how we ended up with gop congress majority under most of Obama presidency AlexSFCA Oct 2020 #47

Amen to that TheDemsshouldhireme Oct 2020 #51

and that's why gop thinks they have a mandate AlexSFCA Oct 2020 #52

Well Gerrymandering and the conservative lean to the Senate don't help either. Statistical Oct 2020 #58

statewide races are not subject to gerrymandering AlexSFCA Oct 2020 #83

I share your anger. yardwork Oct 2020 #53

I will never forget how those Hillary Haters/3rd party voters mcar Oct 2020 #55

Yeah I wonder how many of them would have the guts to say it again now or even the guts to say Statistical Oct 2020 #63

Lots of whataboutism on this OP alone mcar Oct 2020 #66

It wasn't Susan Sarandon, it was the Bernie Bros who sank us FakeNoose Oct 2020 #61

Post removed Post removed Oct 2020 #68

So does pretending someone is a member of your Party FakeNoose Oct 2020 #72

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2020 #79

It seems only Republicans are welcome in some of those "big tents". nt Autumn Oct 2020 #86

your motto appears to be Celerity Oct 2020 #75

MSNBC's Eddie Glaude's statements on his non-support of Hillary oasis Oct 2020 #70

this semi-long post of mine may help Celerity Oct 2020 #78

Thanks I'll read this FakeNoose Oct 2020 #82

yw Celerity Oct 2020 #88

+1 progressoid Oct 2020 #144

Agreed DENVERPOPS Oct 2020 #116

That is not true. Bernie did ask his supporters to vote for her. Autumn Oct 2020 #128

K&R. (nt) Paladin Oct 2020 #69

my fear is this woman could yuiyoshida Oct 2020 #71

+++ agree. that's why we gotta have a HUGE blue wave. nt iluvtennis Oct 2020 #77

I have a couple friends who refuse to vote ecstatic Oct 2020 #76

Why would they refuse to vote? dhol82 Oct 2020 #107

Self Righteous Liberals, Hillary Haters Alice Garoute Oct 2020 #80

It's a shame this still works. Duncan Grant Oct 2020 #81

People forget that a record number of people voted. Black turn out was down, Hillary won by over Autumn Oct 2020 #91

Black turnout was going to be down from Obama's election no matter who we nominated. StevieM Oct 2020 #96

I didn't claim she was the wrong candidate to appeal to black voters. I stated a fact that Autumn Oct 2020 #111

Black turnout went up five points to a historical high in 2008 and 2012. Then went back to usual. betsuni Oct 2020 #98

So they were registered to vote when Obama was running ? Voted twice, they just chose not to Autumn Oct 2020 #179

"Of course, African Americans have been a crucial Democratic constituency since the civil rights betsuni Oct 2020 #180

No, it's not hard to understand at all. Too bad they didn't vote in 2016, Hillary would have won. Autumn Oct 2020 #181

"What characteristic distinguished Sanders and Clinton supporters? To many election-year betsuni Oct 2020 #184

Dems should work to gain the loyalty from those younger voters some of the rank and file detest. Autumn Oct 2020 #185

Why don't you call the authors of the book and ask them about it? betsuni Oct 2020 #186

I don't need to. You cleared it up nicely with your snippets. I couldn't have picked any better. Autumn Oct 2020 #187

Raw black voter turnout RATE was down, it was down by %. It also was equal to turnout RATE.... George II Oct 2020 #101

This is the direct result of 2016 BainsBane Oct 2020 #150

Their answer is yes, because it will bring about the "revolution" treestar Oct 2020 #93

So the big revolution turned out to be some more Americans realizing they should vote. betsuni Oct 2020 #95

this llashram Oct 2020 #100

Yes but no. lark Oct 2020 #102

I Blame the Media The River Oct 2020 #103

Yep! Rebl2 Oct 2020 #108

A penetrating quote from 1979 anamnua Oct 2020 #104

Sarandon is still at it this year, as are some prominent "progressive" voices - most notably.... George II Oct 2020 #109

What's that? SaranWrap, you're Saying? Le Drunkard Thomas Oct 2020 #117

Life Lesson of Lessons? calclar Oct 2020 #125

Is this really the post we want given that the election is just days away?...REALLY? mudstump Oct 2020 #130

Ikr? questionseverything Oct 2020 #143

EXACTLY - this just helps out Russian Trolls FreddyWhite Oct 2020 #153

How? betsuni Oct 2020 #159

Counterfactual quakerboy Oct 2020 #132

'zactly. progressoid Oct 2020 #145

Sorry no... jimlup Oct 2020 #136

+1 Duncan Grant Oct 2020 #139

Hasn't this been beaten to death already? chwaliszewski Oct 2020 #138

16 things Hillary Clinton blames for her election loss progressoid Oct 2020 #146

"A small but still significant number of left-wing voters may well have thrown the election betsuni Oct 2020 #149

Same old, same old, nothing new here. 🙄 nt Raine Oct 2020 #147

What's new is that the rights BainsBane Oct 2020 #151

The ignorance was and is astounding. betsuni Oct 2020 #158

There is definitely some BS about the 2020 primary BainsBane Oct 2020 #160

This is exactly what they wanted BainsBane Oct 2020 #148

Whoaaa slow down people! you are yelling divisive language! FreddyWhite Oct 2020 #152

Don't push the Green Party here. MrsCoffee Oct 2020 #164

I'm not in that group, & I've always voted with the S.C. in mind backroadblast Oct 2020 #162

I lulz'd KG Oct 2020 #166

While serving in Iraq, a war she voted for Stryst Oct 2020 #170

Sarandon wants her way or else. Progressive dog Oct 2020 #172

Unproductive. Thats all. KPN Oct 2020 #174

By the way, some people seem to forget that Sarandon is a political activist. betsuni Oct 2020 #182