General Discussion

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)

79. Precisely.

Mon Oct 1, 2012, 01:54 AM

Oct 2012

When Muslims accept Christians without rioting in front of churches, banning Bibles and punishing those who convert from Muslim to Christian, then maybe we can discuss how free speech actually supports the freedom of religion.

The only reason that oddball made the movie about the Muslim religion was that he knew it would anger Muslims. If you don't parade your excessive sensitivity about religion, if you don't think of it as proof of your virtue but rather as proof of your own prejudice against the religious beliefs of others, then "insulting" movies will not bother you that much.

The Muslim world has lived in relative isolation when it comes to contact with people of other faiths. The West has had a slightly longer time to get used to the fact that not everyone is Christian or Catholic or Protestant or a believer in one of our traditional religions.

The Muslims will get used to it. Give them time.

We criticize American exceptionalism. Well, Muslim exceptionalism is just as big a mistake.

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At U.N., Muslim world questions Western freedom of speech [View all] dkf Sep 2012 OP

bullies and thugs of islam (and other religions) are afraid of free speech nt msongs Sep 2012 #1

thanks for the concern, i think i will stick with free speech all the same. loli phabay Sep 2012 #2

This alas is an unbridgeable gulf. cali Sep 2012 #3

Perhaps it's the Muslim leaders who are hiding behind "cultural sensitivities" Recovered Repug Sep 2012 #4

You hit the nail right on the friggin head. (nt) eqfan592 Sep 2012 #24

You may be right.nt zellie Sep 2012 #25

You are right + LOL rock Sep 2012 #35

Middle eastern Islamic nations are at the forefront of suppression of freedom. Dawson Leery Sep 2012 #38

Unless you are a male muslim, you have no rights. Quantess Sep 2012 #50

Exactly!!! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2012 #51

Precisely. JDPriestly Oct 2012 #79

Well, historically the muslim world was more tolerant than the christian one.. X_Digger Oct 2012 #116

Sorry, but we see too many exiled Christians and Jews from Muslim countries in LA. JDPriestly Oct 2012 #117

I think you missed the point.. X_Digger Oct 2012 #121

Lets keep it within a 500 year span please Missycim Oct 2012 #125

But the Jews have been the victims always -- whether the persecution was by Muslims or by Christians JDPriestly Oct 2012 #132

Bingo! nt hifiguy Oct 2012 #97

+1 NCTraveler Oct 2012 #128

Democracy and free speech are popular in the Middle East, but most draw a line pampango Sep 2012 #5

Except many seem to think critical cartoons are "hate speech" Bucky Oct 2012 #114

Do they really think they will get anywhere with this argument? davidn3600 Sep 2012 #6

It's a good argument, long overdue. bemildred Sep 2012 #7

Hate speech is not banned in the United States, nor should it be davidn3600 Sep 2012 #8

huh? where did you get the idea that the U.S. prohibits hate speech? cali Sep 2012 #9

The usual American narcissism I see: bemildred Sep 2012 #10

It is not confused in America hack89 Sep 2012 #11

Please the subject line see post #10. I was not talking in particular about the USA. bemildred Sep 2012 #12

please see this in your post #7: cali Sep 2012 #15

Right, and you assume I must mean the USA, despite the fact that bemildred Sep 2012 #17

yes, I assumed that the "we" was referencing the U.S. cali Sep 2012 #19

It is precisely because Europe has such laws that they must be the referent of the speakers. bemildred Sep 2012 #21

"you underestimate Mr. Morsi at your peril, he is no loudmouth lightweight" Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2012 #31

Blatant backpedaling is deeply offensive to the Deity I believe in. Warren DeMontague Oct 2012 #93

Heh. bemildred Oct 2012 #95

Hey, at least you admit it. Warren DeMontague Oct 2012 #108

Yep, this is really important, isn't it? bemildred Oct 2012 #109

In turn shall they be required to change Sharia law to respect other religions? hack89 Sep 2012 #16

Absolutely, they should respect other religions, why would you expect an exception for them? bemildred Sep 2012 #18

As long as the Constitution is respected hack89 Sep 2012 #20

+1. nt bemildred Sep 2012 #23

We are also free to bash Christians, especially evangelicals dkf Sep 2012 #28

Bashing is very popular all around. bemildred Sep 2012 #29

How's about bashing most major religions for their attitudes towards homosexuality? dkf Sep 2012 #30

Are we bashing the practices or the religions? bemildred Sep 2012 #33

Good grief how long have you been around here? dkf Sep 2012 #36

A while. nt bemildred Sep 2012 #37

Yeah I know I was being facetious. My bad. dkf Sep 2012 #39

Perhaps if you were more explicit about what's on your mind? bemildred Sep 2012 #42

By bashing, you mean criticizing, right? Ideas NEED to be criticized, and religion is just an idea. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #102

Something tells me you don't like religion much. That's not an argument I want the other side of. bemildred Oct 2012 #110

The problem is you equate "bashing", "criticizing", "blasphemy" etc. with infringement... Humanist_Activist Oct 2012 #118

The point is it's none of your business unless they are violating somebodies rights, bemildred Oct 2012 #123

Shouldn't I determine whether its my business or not? Humanist_Activist Oct 2012 #134

That would depend on what "it" is, wouldn't it? And that would be your opinion, wouldn't it? bemildred Oct 2012 #137

The subject line in post #10 says "The usual AMERICAN narcissism I see..." cherokeeprogressive Sep 2012 #45

Very observant. nt bemildred Sep 2012 #46

Trust me. Many Muslims bash Christianity too. They won't admit it, but they feel their religion JDPriestly Oct 2012 #81

Yes. nt bemildred Oct 2012 #96

lol. Sorry, it's not even remotely a confused area of the law. cali Sep 2012 #14

"There's plenty of hate in the media in Arab and Muslim majority countries"?? zellie Sep 2012 #13

Hate speech is directed at people, not beliefs... Humanist_Activist Oct 2012 #74

THANK YOU! Behind the Aegis Oct 2012 #75

I agree. (Although that boundary is not always sharp, and people will mix the two.) bemildred Oct 2012 #99

People don't have a right to not be offended, and relying on intent is foolhardy... Humanist_Activist Oct 2012 #120

"People don't have a right to not be offended"? bemildred Oct 2012 #122

Yes I'm sure, why free speech is so difficult a concept for you to grasp I will never understand. Humanist_Activist Oct 2012 #135

Do people have a right to not be offended or not? bemildred Oct 2012 #138

But not in the US glacierbay Oct 2012 #130

Actually you are right, I used a thoughtless example... Humanist_Activist Oct 2012 #133

No problem. nt. glacierbay Oct 2012 #136

If they ally with out local Christian extremists... I'm not so sure anymore. 2ndAmForComputers Sep 2012 #22

Well they are behind us on that treestar Sep 2012 #26

In the US hate speech is protected, Arctic Dave Sep 2012 #27

Good answer cpwm17 Sep 2012 #41

Umm we kill you with a predator drone if you're involved with Al Qaeda Hippo_Tron Sep 2012 #64

So talking about AQ is enough to kill them? Arctic Dave Sep 2012 #65

Umm who's been killed for merely talking about Al Qaeda? Hippo_Tron Oct 2012 #111

Being at the "wrong" wedding is reason enough for us to kill them. Vidar Oct 2012 #119

Freedom of Speech is one of the pillars of Democracy. Quantess Sep 2012 #32

Shock and Awe cpwm17 Sep 2012 #43

Excellent point, so eloquent. Quantess Sep 2012 #44

One of the major war crimes of the last century, and that's saying something. WinkyDink Sep 2012 #56

The Muslim World needs to grow the fuck up... Odin2005 Sep 2012 #34

+1,000,000 n/t SickOfTheOnePct Sep 2012 #40

Muslims get offended about as much as Republicans do. Bake Oct 2012 #107

How many Republicans Missycim Oct 2012 #126

We can't be having any of that free speech stuff. Rex Sep 2012 #47

I'll side with freedom of speech over butthurt religious zealots rollin74 Sep 2012 #48

This Turkish foreign minister is an Islamist jackass jsr Sep 2012 #49

Well I guess we need to kill more of them. SomethingFishy Sep 2012 #52

"Islamophobia"? Nope. Not afraid. Fuck them and their bullying censorship. Edweird Sep 2012 #53

Meanwhile, the Western World questions Muslimn world's treatment of women. (Mine does, anyway.) WinkyDink Sep 2012 #54

So, after seeing these threads every day for two weeks now, I have one question. Scootaloo Sep 2012 #55

David Irving has published around 30 books oberliner Sep 2012 #58

I'm glad you showed up, Oberliner. Scootaloo Sep 2012 #60

id say that if he was covered by the 1st amendment then he could as long as he didnt advocate violen loli phabay Oct 2012 #85

Again, we're talking about the UN, not the United States. Scootaloo Oct 2012 #87

lol i got a feeling that this is a set up, as i said he can say what he likes but i think hes a nut loli phabay Oct 2012 #88

Post removed Post removed Oct 2012 #91

lol where did you get i want to murder thousands of iranians loli phabay Oct 2012 #92

Has Irving been tried in the USA? NutmegYankee Sep 2012 #59

Are you paying any attention at all? Scootaloo Sep 2012 #61

And obviously it is. NutmegYankee Sep 2012 #62

Nothing personal, but I don't buy that line. Scootaloo Sep 2012 #63

Yet another case of your not seeing it because you can't or won't? Behind the Aegis Sep 2012 #66

The problem is, there is no "battle," Aegis Scootaloo Oct 2012 #72

But there is a battle, Scootaloo. Behind the Aegis Oct 2012 #73

No, it's not a battle. Scootaloo Oct 2012 #76

You claim to be fighting against hypocrisy and bigotry, but you aren't. Behind the Aegis Oct 2012 #78

You're right. Scootaloo Oct 2012 #80

i think the video is not about dehumanizing people its taking the piss out of their religion loli phabay Oct 2012 #86

See, if it were JUST "lol Mohammed was a dingbat" or something, I'd agree Scootaloo Oct 2012 #89

and you know i probuably wouldnt like his movie and think hes a prick, but im not going to shut him loli phabay Oct 2012 #90

Denial cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #71

Show me. Scootaloo Oct 2012 #77

My right to free speech guarantees that I can criticize homophobes, Holocaust deniers, racists, JDPriestly Oct 2012 #82

You have the right, but apparently not the inclination. Scootaloo Oct 2012 #83

I have criticized and generously. That's what is right to do. JDPriestly Oct 2012 #94

Probably has a lot to do with the fact that Mr. Irving doesn't kill people. NutmegYankee Oct 2012 #112

You don't seem to get it. Saying I support the First Amendment is a blanket statement. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2012 #67

Wonderful for you. Scootaloo Oct 2012 #70

I know you can't post in this thread any more MNBrewer Oct 2012 #100

Anyone should have a right to deny the holocaust cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #68

You make a good point, cthulu2016. JDPriestly Oct 2012 #84

When they allow women to drive cars alone, vote, talk to strange men and own their own businesses Vincardog Sep 2012 #57

Should we give you a call? "Get back to [you]"? closeupready Oct 2012 #105

They are expressing desired actions to be taken by MY sovereign Government Please do get back to me Vincardog Oct 2012 #106

Speaking of offending religious sensitivities... It's Blasphemy Day! backscatter712 Sep 2012 #69

I had a great Blasphemy day! MNBrewer Oct 2012 #101

Christ on a cracker! I love Blasphemy Day! n/t backscatter712 Oct 2012 #103

Are we also allowed to mock Muhammad? Because he was a pedophile. WinkyDink Oct 2012 #124

I see no problem with it! backscatter712 Oct 2012 #131

They can question it StarlightGold Oct 2012 #98

K&R - this thread has generated a lot of valuable speech. closeupready Oct 2012 #104

I don't think I'll be taking a lecture on ethnic hatred from Islamic fundamentalists today. Bucky Oct 2012 #113

I have one thing to say to them. Zalatix Oct 2012 #115

"I don't like what he says, but I defend his right to say it". Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #127

"Freedom does not mean anarchy" NCTraveler Oct 2012 #129