General Discussion

exboyfil

(18,366 posts)

67. Sorry to break it to you but

Mon Oct 1, 2012, 12:49 PM

Oct 2012

S.S. is already a hybrid insurer/welfare system for those between about $50K-$105K (the cap). That comes about primarily by how the benefits are calculated (15% of that income goes into the formula versus the prior two steps of 90% and 32%). Until folks understand this you can't sell removing the cap.

My argument is that the cap should be removed, but those funds taxed at a lower percentage level (so they don't go into the formula for calculating benefits but they step up to the plate as a percentage of that income like those immediately below the c ap). Right now the system is structured on the backs of those making $50 to $105K.

You might like the idea of the poor and middle supporting the whole system, but I sure would like some help from those making over $105K.

One thing we should keep in mind is not handcuffing our children with higher withholding rates than those which currently exist. I would like a stake in the ground on that policy (including asking current and near term retirees to step up to the plate if necessary).

67 is plenty old as an engineer already. I don't see my self going to to 70 or 75. I am not even sure I will be able to hold onto 67 (I am 49 now).

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Why shouldn't Social Security age be raised for future generations? [View all] zaj Oct 2012 OP

Do you know what your current retirement age is? DURHAM D Oct 2012 #1

More live to retirement age, but not really "longer" SharonAnn Oct 2012 #144

Because waitresses, hotel maids, janitors, nurses, etc still are hedgehog Oct 2012 #2

+1 Liberal Veteran Oct 2012 #6

this.... quality of life issues justabob Oct 2012 #16

+1 obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #23

Other countries retire at 60. robinlynne Oct 2012 #25

A DUer posted a few weeks ago about the prospect of "working to age 70" KansDem Oct 2012 #38

My Mom was a nurse and she was ready to retire at 55 - she was really worn out hedgehog Oct 2012 #44

Too many think that it would be easy to work until 70 or so. LiberalFighter Oct 2012 #80

I have been all of those, and a truck driver too! Care Acutely Oct 2012 #66

I'm an RN. I've done ER work for 30 years. I can't do it anymore and I am in GOOD SHAPE.. K Gardner Oct 2012 #90

Amen Horse with no Name Oct 2012 #114

Farmer here. Same thing - 30+ years at this kind of labor, in good shape, but TIRED riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #122

We have a good friend, a plumber, who had worked on his knees for 38 years and just retired CTyankee Oct 2012 #92

lord, I've been waitressing for 17 years now... Maine-ah Oct 2012 #121

Answer: How many companies employ people in their 60s? Where is it that you think people are going antigop Oct 2012 #3

you really think poor people are living longer and longer? CBGLuthier Oct 2012 #4

Yes, and the people who work in physically demanding jobs... Liberal Veteran Oct 2012 #11

Why do some people pay SS tax on 100% of their salary.. peace13 Oct 2012 #5

"The trouble is that the politicians raid the bank" arcane1 Oct 2012 #13

It could be considered treestar Oct 2012 #7

Why should it? mmonk Oct 2012 #8

It should only be modified based on facts... zaj Oct 2012 #17

You did not answer my question. DURHAM D Oct 2012 #20

why not raise taxes on the wealthy to put more money into the program? robinlynne Oct 2012 #26

The people who most depend on social security ARE THE ONES who work hard OKNancy Oct 2012 #9

I respect that, but... zaj Oct 2012 #27

Two points nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #69

The security of elders and older workers okasha Oct 2012 #130

Because we should be trying to improve our standard of living, not keeping it the same. randome Oct 2012 #10

That's an interesting assumption.. zaj Oct 2012 #37

Well, there are arguments below about reducing the age to 55. randome Oct 2012 #43

I agree with the other poster whole heartedly. ieoeja Oct 2012 #87

Actually check your numbers nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #12

Fair enough... zaj Oct 2012 #29

Do you know anything about current policy or DURHAM D Oct 2012 #41

you have to understand the numbers before saying that hollysmom Oct 2012 #64

+1 nt Live and Learn Oct 2012 #31

thanks 2pooped2pop Oct 2012 #60

First, because life expectancy is actually stagnant or decreasing for a significant fraction of HiPointDem Oct 2012 #14

+1 KurtNYC Oct 2012 #21

+2 nt Live and Learn Oct 2012 #32

Thanks for the links. hay rick Oct 2012 #116

^ this lumberjack_jeff Oct 2012 #123

ACTUALLY, THE RETIREMENT AGE IS TOO HIGH ProSense Oct 2012 #15

Exactly! nt SunSeeker Oct 2012 #24

Yes. The young need the jobs Live and Learn Oct 2012 #36

But where does the money come from? mythology Oct 2012 #136

Because rising life expectancy is already factored into Social Security MannyGoldstein Oct 2012 #18

Because we should be improving Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #19

For that matter, Art_from_Ark Oct 2012 #111

Because it will raise unemployment and misery. SunSeeker Oct 2012 #22

I think it should be lowered obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #28

And a big plus to you. GoneOffShore Oct 2012 #40

..... obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #99

It should be lowered and the CAP on wages should be eliminated. Vincardog Oct 2012 #76

+1 obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #100

Wrong tama Oct 2012 #30

How about people working in factories, doing physical labor, or high-risk jobs? Zen Democrat Oct 2012 #33

I can actually think of a couple of reasons. mysuzuki2 Oct 2012 #34

If we don't raise the retirement age, how else can we make it pay for itself long-term? reformist2 Oct 2012 #35

Lift the freaking SS tax (FICA) cap! SunSeeker Oct 2012 #46

Raise the cap. Liberal Veteran Oct 2012 #47

I'm OK with that, but it does change SS from an insurance plan to a hybrid insurer/welfare program. reformist2 Oct 2012 #59

Sorry to break it to you but exboyfil Oct 2012 #67

I'd like to see the age dropped to 55. GoneOffShore Oct 2012 #39

After removal of the cap exboyfil Oct 2012 #68

Because for many people, their work is physically demanding The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2012 #42

the cap should be raised, not the age. Retirement opens jobs for the young larkrake Oct 2012 #45

It's strange to me... ljm2002 Oct 2012 #48

Well wait until you're about 60 and see how enthusiastic you are about raising the retirement age. Ganja Ninja Oct 2012 #49

+100 n/t whathehell Oct 2012 #101

"the nature of our work" shanti Oct 2012 #50

Because there's more to life than work... Comrade_McKenzie Oct 2012 #51

So you want to privatize SS? DURHAM D Oct 2012 #53

Nearly every reasonably compensated individual exboyfil Oct 2012 #71

We live longer but longer life doesn't necessarily mean longer productive life aint_no_life_nowhere Oct 2012 #52

life expectancy is falling for some groups. n/t Cobalt Violet Oct 2012 #54

what would you rather have? Locrian Oct 2012 #55

Other countries don't use age, but total number of years worked. It makes more sense mainer Oct 2012 #56

Why shouldn't we raise the cap and make the better off contribute on 100% of their income?? tokenlib Oct 2012 #57

I'm sorry, but... Oilwellian Oct 2012 #58

"People live longer" is a fallacious argument nichomachus Oct 2012 #61

touche! Carolina Oct 2012 #139

I am gobsmacked that you could start such an asinine thread. tech3149 Oct 2012 #62

OK, let's start with YOUR cohort. Age 80 before you collect a dime of what you paid in. Ikonoklast Oct 2012 #63

Not just your body, but your mind. HughBeaumont Oct 2012 #81

If I had the money, I'd retire now, too Lydia Leftcoast Oct 2012 #94

Learn something new every day here. Ikonoklast Oct 2012 #96

Because money grows on trees and you can always get someone young to pay more to support you. dkf Oct 2012 #65

A decent retirement income and adequate medical care is not too much to ask. dawg Oct 2012 #84

Do you believe you can count on and should depend on other people's wealth to provide dkf Oct 2012 #95

It's MY freaking wealth. It came from the sweat of my brow. SunSeeker Oct 2012 #109

The lifestyle I want? dawg Oct 2012 #117

There were 6 others who helped provide for each person in the generation ahead of you. dkf Oct 2012 #124

Yes, but our GDP has increased massively over the last fifty years, even ... dawg Oct 2012 #125

Social security tries to keep a link between payments and benefits. dkf Oct 2012 #134

It has always been a government program. dawg Oct 2012 #135

But what are you entitled to if there is no connection to your benefits? dkf Oct 2012 #140

You know, you're the one who came up with the "no connection" bit. dawg Oct 2012 #142

No...there is a positive real rate of return at almost every level. A slightly negative one the top dkf Oct 2012 #145

That's good information. It proves that very little additional revenue is needed. dawg Oct 2012 #146

We are not living longer! The infant B Calm Oct 2012 #70

First, repay the "borrowed" funds. Daemonaquila Oct 2012 #72

Because many jobs are too physically demanding for older folks. Odin2005 Oct 2012 #73

Social Security doesn't dictate a retirement date. BlueStreak Oct 2012 #74

It has been raised CreekDog Oct 2012 #75

Because so far my generation has had minimum wage frozen for two record setting ten year periods, slampoet Oct 2012 #77

HERE'S PRECISELY WHY THE SS AGE SHOULD NOT BE RAISED - Koch Bros. are behind it... Must-see Video -- Indi Guy Oct 2012 #78

Well looky there Oilwellian Oct 2012 #82

I think this info/video... Indi Guy Oct 2012 #97

Thank you for the videos! SunSeeker Oct 2012 #107

I don't know how old you are but you probably haven't experienced ageism at work yet Matariki Oct 2012 #79

80 will never be the average human longevity. WinkyDink Oct 2012 #83

Pessimist! dawg Oct 2012 #86

If we ever really did have a major across-the-board increase in life expectancy ... dawg Oct 2012 #85

The longer life spans are not equally distributed across demographic groups . . . markpkessinger Oct 2012 #88

There aren't enough jobs to keep all the young people employed. Blue_In_AK Oct 2012 #89

that's my answer Enrique Oct 2012 #91

+1000 wickerwoman Oct 2012 #115

Several reasons. Zalatix Oct 2012 #93

Because I paid into it my whole working life at the higher rate... JHB Oct 2012 #98

get back to us when you are 65 Skittles Oct 2012 #102

you know, my dad's girlfriend worked at a laundry facility. ejpoeta Oct 2012 #103

you must be young. spanone Oct 2012 #104

How old are you? RC Oct 2012 #105

+1 area51 Oct 2012 #149

I'll be 62 next week, and I'm tired NOW dammit! Retirement age has already been pushed up to 67, so txwhitedove Oct 2012 #106

If you factor out infant mortality B Calm Oct 2012 #108

I'm a 58 y.o. waitress HeeBGBz Oct 2012 #110

First and foremost, increasing the labor pool diminishes wages TheKentuckian Oct 2012 #112

Ever try to get a job over 50? marlakay Oct 2012 #113

How old are you? Javaman Oct 2012 #118

Because it's an unnecessary benefit CUT, plain and simple. It will cause hardship. jtown1123 Oct 2012 #119

If you're a white collar worker that may not seem extreme, but doccraig67 Oct 2012 #120

i just read where we are not living as long. and ... where are the jobs???? nt seabeyond Oct 2012 #126

People who do hard physical work are used up in their 50s Warpy Oct 2012 #127

55 really? What about those who are 54, should it not be protected still_one Oct 2012 #128

Because its good enough the way it is. MichiganVote Oct 2012 #129

The age of eligablity should be going DOWN not up bowens43 Oct 2012 #131

Because 60 is still 60. Even if you live longer. Why should they not be able to more easily enjoy... NCTraveler Oct 2012 #132

Its interesting zaj hasn't come back to reply to many requests for his/her age and occupation riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #133

Bodies wear out! Carolina Oct 2012 #137

Are you saying Glitterati Oct 2012 #138

Bless your heart! Thanks so much for your concern! ANSWER: Zorra Oct 2012 #141

my father retired from a factory--he was pretty much used up dembotoz Oct 2012 #143

It's a much bigger stimulus to the economy to retire early, like in France librechik Oct 2012 #147

Suppose you raise the retirement age.... OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #148

Economic reason - the longer you force working class people to labor at full-time jobs haele Oct 2012 #150

I have a question too. Why shouldn't the cap be raised instead of eligibility age? notadmblnd Oct 2012 #151

It's already 67 Yo_Mama Oct 2012 #152

Ever worked in the coal mines? Sekhmets Daughter Oct 2012 #153

Some of us still have physically demanding jobs. Codeine Oct 2012 #154

Hell, I work a desk job. I can't imagine being able to keep up with it till 67, much less 70 and TheKentuckian Oct 2012 #156

Because people with, for instance, good public service sector jobs are forced out at 65 and kestrel91316 Oct 2012 #155