General Discussion

Phoenix61

(17,023 posts)

48. No, they aren't.

Mon Nov 16, 2020, 06:25 PM

Nov 2020

“There are no public plans for such a study in the U.S., but politicians and volunteers are pushing for one. More than 14,000 willing study participants have organized an advocacy group, and 35 members of Congress recently asked regulators to consider human challenge trials. Across the Atlantic, some European companies are working to launch challenge studies, and the World Health Organization recently released a working document outlining criteria for an ethically acceptable design.”

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Anyone else looking at the Modera and Pfizer Vaccine pressers? They're not very controlled at all [View all] uponit7771 Nov 2020 OP

There's no other way to do human studies for Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #1

Yes they can, give my family 5 million if I die or get disabled & free education I'll think about uponit7771 Nov 2020 #6

No, they can't. Turin_C3PO Nov 2020 #13

Not if they volunteer, 14,000 for human challenge (link inside) uponit7771 Nov 2020 #38

No ethical doctor would deliberately infect Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #14

No, they're doing human challenge studies here and in Europe. 14,000 already signed up here (link) uponit7771 Nov 2020 #39

No, they aren't. Phoenix61 Nov 2020 #48

I remember this story about the doctor who let a mosquito bite him & got Yellow Fever and died liberal_mama Nov 2020 #33

Yes, they were well-controlled. MineralMan Nov 2020 #2

The person speaking about Moderna on CNN claimed there was no controlled infection process ... uponit7771 Nov 2020 #3

No study can challenge subjects by deliberately exposing them to the virus. MineralMan Nov 2020 #7

They are about to do a human challenge trial in the UK ... rog Nov 2020 #31

+1, I think the number in the US is up to 14,000 already. Give them extra if they live or not uponit7771 Nov 2020 #36

Yes they can if the people volunteered link inside uponit7771 Nov 2020 #35

That was a really good article ... rog Nov 2020 #46

"both placebo group and the non placebo group both got sick but they got sick at different levels" Orangepeel Nov 2020 #15

"Usually, they will try to statistically control for other factors" True, I'm thinking they would've uponit7771 Nov 2020 #40

What you call a "controlled infection process" is very rare, and not what "control" means in tests muriel_volestrangler Nov 2020 #22

Correct, but there are 14,000 volunteers so far for human challenge. Seems like this vaccine would uponit7771 Nov 2020 #37

This - the normal kind of test - achieves different things muriel_volestrangler Nov 2020 #45

Agreed -- risk analysis or anything to strengthen claims would be nice JT45242 Nov 2020 #4

+1, "engaged in equally risky behavior." after hearing the women on CNN my jaw dropped cause the uponit7771 Nov 2020 #5

+1 Laelth Nov 2020 #8

Dexamethasone, while disagreeable to take due to moonscape Nov 2020 #20

I'm listening to the Moderna doctor and I can't believe what I'm hearing !! He's basically saying uponit7771 Nov 2020 #11

It means vaccine prevented covid in 95 % of people who got the vaccine. LisaL Nov 2020 #18

We'd have to assume the risk behavior etc etc among the two groups are equal enough ... uponit7771 Nov 2020 #28

So, yeah, they were "so wide swathed socio economically" muriel_volestrangler Nov 2020 #24

Absolutely, that's way the hell too narrow for medical vaccine. OMG, thats prelim data for further uponit7771 Nov 2020 #29

It's the number the FDA decided on a long time ago muriel_volestrangler Nov 2020 #47

It doesn't mean that at all. Disaffected Nov 2020 #30

That would assume the risk behavior etc among the groups is wide enough. I can see how this is ... uponit7771 Nov 2020 #41

People were randomly split into two groups. LisaL Nov 2020 #9

The pressers don't show delta's between the two groups that are socio economic etc uponit7771 Nov 2020 #17

Nobody would do clinical trial like that. LisaL Nov 2020 #19

Do you believe they should intentionally infect people with a deadly disease instead? Statistical Nov 2020 #10

Only if the people volunteered like have been done in human challenge studies (link inside) uponit7771 Nov 2020 #32

Many experts I respect Turin_C3PO Nov 2020 #12

+1 lunasun Nov 2020 #16

All the experts I respect are waiting on peer reviewed data which we don't have, just a presser uponit7771 Nov 2020 #21

For how long does one have immunity? I think I read moonscape Nov 2020 #23

I sincerely doubt that. LisaL Nov 2020 #25

You doubt what? Laurie Garrett, author moonscape Nov 2020 #27

The "good" news genxlib Nov 2020 #26

Hmmm, true but wouldn't that push both groups to go into higher NPI levels? Vaccine or not uponit7771 Nov 2020 #34

That is sort of the idea genxlib Nov 2020 #42

Right, I think my issue is the filing for EUA based off the 95 people so far but if it was 500 to uponit7771 Nov 2020 #43

Agreed genxlib Nov 2020 #44

That's a whole other issue with me, we can do what Thailand, Australia, S Korea or a number of other uponit7771 Nov 2020 #50

You are wrong, do more research! nt USALiberal Nov 2020 #49