General Discussion

diva77

(7,880 posts)

64. The best way to run elections is to have paper ballots, hand marked in secret and counted publicly

Sun Nov 29, 2020, 06:09 PM

Nov 2020

at the precinct level with public oversight. The counting is best done by the sort/stack/count/count method http://www.protectcaliforniaballots.org/Documents/Handouts2/The%20Sort,%20Stack,%20Count,%20Count%20method%20for%20hand%20counting%20paper%20ballots.pdf

and the results should be posted at the precinct before the ballots are taken to the county elections HQ. All voting, with the exception of people with special needs, should be done ON election day.

Voter registration should be done with printed paper books NOT epoll books.

There is no "back up" document needed -- the BALLOT is the BALLOT of record.

Precinct size is capped off at between 1-1500 people so you never have long waits. If the population grows, you still will never have long waits. This era of 8 hour lines is another cruel, devious invention of the rethugs.

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Y'know what? I suspect there WAS fraud in this election. [View all] Jeebo Nov 2020 OP

K&R Blue Owl Nov 2020 #1

if trump could have cheated mushroomhunter Nov 2020 #95

Voter suppression. radius777 Nov 2020 #2

Tinfoil hat alert ! jaysunb Nov 2020 #3

Exactly! Iwasthere Nov 2020 #8

"He was told the fix was in. He just couldn't have lost!" LiberalLovinLug Nov 2020 #61

I would love to see how many mail in angstlessk Nov 2020 #11

Don Jr was trying to claim that undervotes were fraudelent. yellowdogintexas Nov 2020 #49

Exactly, mail in votes cannot do down ballot voting angstlessk Nov 2020 #52

We voted absentee from abroad, and we could vote for President and congress critter only. GoneOffShore Nov 2020 #56

I tend to think this might be the case as well Bettie Nov 2020 #30

I do too, and I hope this is investigated. Nt spooky3 Nov 2020 #36

I think you're right Catherine Vincent Nov 2020 #75

I concur with your diagnosis: It was a perfect storm of sorts rocktivity Nov 2020 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author rocktivity Jan 2021 #127

This doesn't mean the OP is off in thinking at all, both can be true. uponit7771 Dec 2020 #116

Cheating and stealing have benefitted FoxNewsSucks Nov 2020 #4

EXACTLY! It worked in 2016 they planned a tweak for 2020. The republicans have been stealing...... usaf-vet Nov 2020 #41

regarding Item 3, it is my experience that the reverse is true yellowdogintexas Nov 2020 #55

Maybe I worded it wrong BUT I think my #3 and your tally as written mean the same thing IMO. usaf-vet Nov 2020 #65

I agree, although it more likely was technically voter suppression intrepidity Nov 2020 #5

There was definitely voter suppression in Texas TexasBushwhacker Nov 2020 #70

+1, I've been saying for weeks the polling firms don't weight voter suppression accurately. uponit7771 Dec 2020 #117

I wholly agree and said the same thing two weeks ago. The numbers/polling make absolutely Hestia Nov 2020 #6

I completely agree pandr32 Nov 2020 #7

It's not only okay to believe this, Iwasthere Nov 2020 #9

8 years? Why not 12, 16? The (r)epuglicons will be fractured. The Democrats need to be strong erronis Nov 2020 #20

Republicans lying to pollster. 2% of republicans saying they are voting applegrove Nov 2020 #10

Where does that info come from? KPN Nov 2020 #37

The polls were off by 4%. Same thing happened to Kerry in 2004. applegrove Nov 2020 #46

In 2004, final polls were largely accurate in predicting a small Bush lead. tritsofme Nov 2020 #50

I didn't share any information. I was just wondering where you got the 2% from. I've heard the KPN Nov 2020 #71

The polls were off in 2004 too election day. applegrove Nov 2020 #73

Sounds like mythmaking, the final polls were largely accurate in 2004 tritsofme Nov 2020 #81

The exit polls, which were published during election day in 2004, gave applegrove Nov 2020 #84

I don't think there is any real evidence that leaked early exit poll data, that were only available tritsofme Nov 2020 #88

So the MSM made a rule to never publish presidential vote exit polls applegrove Nov 2020 #97

They already had that rule, it was just flagrantly violated in 2004. tritsofme Nov 2020 #108

Those were exit polls. Apples and oranges. KPN Nov 2020 #87

They were false polling that may have kept democrats home from voting. applegrove Nov 2020 #111

Yes they were. And that may have even a coordinated strategy by KPN Nov 2020 #112

+1, people guessing. There's NOT ONE POLLING FIRM with an analysis of how they were off yet! NOT 1 uponit7771 Dec 2020 #118

I agree. BobTheSubgenius Nov 2020 #12

Call Trump's bluff and thoroughly investigate. Kingofalldems Nov 2020 #13

And proclaiming mail in voting fraudulent months before the election! KPN Nov 2020 #38

republicans openly do everything they can think of to suppress the vote Orangepeel Nov 2020 #14

It was those Dominion machines! ... But KPN Nov 2020 #40

It was those Dominion machines! ... But KPN Nov 2020 #85

agree something is fishy Grasswire2 Nov 2020 #15

I agree with every word you say, except the last sentence: planetc Nov 2020 #16

Okay, I should have been more precise in my wording. Jeebo Nov 2020 #72

I understand exactly what you meant, and applaud it. planetc Nov 2020 #74

I agree. And quietly we will go on and fix the messes the current Republican adm made. LizBeth Nov 2020 #17

Rove's 3 pct election fraud, plus the actual winning margin of 4 pct equals 7 percent. roamer65 Nov 2020 #18

+1 sandensea Nov 2020 #29

K&R n/t Kitchari Nov 2020 #19

tRUMP always projects. NT SayItLoud Nov 2020 #21

Unbelievable -- Both parties claiming there was fraud. Hoyt Nov 2020 #22

Except we objectively have the reality of Trumps cheating & voter suppression as factors .... uponit7771 Dec 2020 #119

At least we have confirmed that irony is alive and well. tritsofme Nov 2020 #23

For the most part, what we're talking about is Bettie Nov 2020 #32

I suggest you read SophieJean Nov 2020 #58

Greg Palast's hat is on too tight. progressoid Nov 2020 #79

You will probably say the same thing DENVERPOPS Nov 2020 #106

lol, now there's a clown I haven't thought of in a while. tritsofme Nov 2020 #109

+1 progressoid Nov 2020 #80

There was massive voter suppression in a lot of states as well as postal delays etc. appleannie1 Nov 2020 #24

Usually if Trump accuses someone of something twodogsbarking Nov 2020 #25

Fox Trotting DeSmet Nov 2020 #26

We have Bush's Help America Vote REPUBLICAN Act to thank for that sandensea Nov 2020 #27

How can we think that and Disaffected Nov 2020 #28

Cognitive dissonance. tritsofme Nov 2020 #31

because voting machine companies tend to be rightwing owned and more counties are GOP controlled LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #45

Suspicions, not evidence. Disaffected Nov 2020 #67

why bother polling then? LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #96

I dunno, Disaffected Nov 2020 #103

Can't. grantcart Nov 2020 #59

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, seems reasonable. nt Disaffected Nov 2020 #69

Voter suppression and voter fraud are two different acts that are no were close in implementation uponit7771 Dec 2020 #120

A view from the north luvtheGWN Nov 2020 #33

Probably just vote suppression Diraven Nov 2020 #34

definitely those are hugely important and may account for the discrepencies LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #47

THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 add 5.) there's no other developed country on earth who's polling is this .. uponit7771 Dec 2020 #121

You mean like moondust Nov 2020 #35

Yep. Easier to get away with big vote shifts there. LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #43

Defund the police and riots......... MRDAWG Nov 2020 #39

Yes, I posted about some of that here LymphocyteLover Nov 2020 #42

I'd like to see a study crud Nov 2020 #44

+1, I OP'd this a month ago; that the blue ran SoS states polling is closer to actual votes than red uponit7771 Dec 2020 #122

i've always wondered barbtries Nov 2020 #48

KY votes " R". He was the only "R" running. SharonAnn Nov 2020 #90

i know that's a lot of it. barbtries Nov 2020 #94

Absolutely dianaredwing Nov 2020 #51

My suspicion all along... GetRidOfThem Nov 2020 #53

trump tried and true suing when he breaks contracts is what he brought to the oval. SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2020 #54

If I was a betting man....? kentuck Nov 2020 #57

Interesting how the machines were way ahead for Dump before the mail in ballots were diva77 Nov 2020 #60

I like the paper ballot. kentuck Nov 2020 #62

The best way to run elections is to have paper ballots, hand marked in secret and counted publicly diva77 Nov 2020 #64

Great ideas! kentuck Nov 2020 #66

Hand counts are fine if there is only 1 ballot issue. Pobeka Nov 2020 #83

You don't need 30 ballots per voter. You resort & restack for each race that is being counted. diva77 Nov 2020 #98

I totally agree that if there was fraud it was on the Republican Side linnknee Nov 2020 #63

Federalized elections? Just imagine the damage Trump would have done. intrepidity Dec 2020 #124

I agree if he could have cheated coeur_de_lion Nov 2020 #68

Maybe the "fix" was put in by Trump UCmeNdc Nov 2020 #76

We need to nuke the black box voting machines quakerboy Nov 2020 #77

Don't nearly all (or all?) machines now print a paper ballot? intrepidity Dec 2020 #123

tRump always cheats at everything. John Dean said he believed tRump believed it Texin Nov 2020 #78

I think at this point DENVERPOPS Nov 2020 #105

I agree with your premise. Don't forget about their moneybags: i.e., the Kochs, Texin Dec 2020 #113

The polls were not that wrong Botany Nov 2020 #82

I tend to agree... Trueblue Texan Nov 2020 #86

10 million people didn't suddenly decide they like Agolf now ( they didn't in 2016) robbedvoter Nov 2020 #89

I absolutely agree with you! PatrickforO Nov 2020 #91

They probably cheated, but not with the machines rolypolychloe Nov 2020 #92

I wouldn't draw any conclusions about repubs preferring low tech cheating diva77 Nov 2020 #100

...and it's said he gained votes from POC , I say that's where they hid the votes MaeScott Nov 2020 #93

That same discrepancy has been recurring for the last twenty years. paulkienitz Nov 2020 #101

I think that's why Trump is freaking out budkin Nov 2020 #102

No one DENVERPOPS Nov 2020 #104

I think we would have seen a replay of 2016 if covid hadn't made mail-in voting a thing. rocktivity Nov 2020 #107

It seems like it wouldn't take much to do a post election poll. rgbecker Nov 2020 #110

xactly, we should have post election audits anyway. There's no other developed country that has had uponit7771 Dec 2020 #115

**THANK YOU!!!*** I've been saying this for WEEKS !! Either US has worse polling of any developed .. uponit7771 Dec 2020 #114

To determine if it is voter suppression that is the problem.... rgbecker Dec 2020 #125

+1, this is another great point; LV voting is more granular and less noisy cause they know more ... uponit7771 Dec 2020 #126