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10. Will the pardon hold up and is the granting of the pardon a crime are separate questions

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 11:16 PM

Dec 2020

If there's an investigation and if they have enough evidence of a clear connection between the granting of the pardon and a personal gain -- something blatant like a wire transfer -- then that's a crime donnie could be liable for.

But even in such an extreme case, it's not clear that the pardon wouldn't hold up. And maybe that's fine, a president can make a corrupt pardon if he's willing to go to prison for it.

In practice though, I don't see any challenge or real effort to prosecute Donnie over pardons. Taxes, sure; but pardons, no.

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These pardons will be challenged and the Supreme Court will find them unconstitutional. [View all] Snake Plissken Dec 2020 OP

I would certainly hope so because if they are not Bev54 Dec 2020 #1

It's not that he can't grant the pardons, it's that it's coti Dec 2020 #9

Yes I agree with that and then I think it is time that there be some kind Bev54 Dec 2020 #22

Sorry. L.Pharmstrong Dec 2020 #72

I could have written this myself! StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #74

Except he gets a pardon himself exboyfil Dec 2020 #24

Who would have standing to bring the matter into court? lastlib Dec 2020 #39

I would say the new DOJ would bring it to court Bev54 Dec 2020 #41

How do you prove corrupt purposes? StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #47

Letting filthy, murderous trash out of prison might do. nt Progressive Jones Dec 2020 #64

No, it won't StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #68

Well, how about putting time limits on pardons? Progressive Jones Dec 2020 #82

That, too, would require a Constitutional amendment StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #84

That's what pardons are for, letting people out of prison. nt EX500rider Dec 2020 #88

Exactly treestar Dec 2020 #46

If you have the goods on Trump and I believe they do Bev54 Dec 2020 #55

Unconstitutional on what grounds? Renew Deal Dec 2020 #2

I think on the grounds sarisataka Dec 2020 #15

Well, in that case, I agree. Renew Deal Dec 2020 #16

Good question, but the OP brings up a good point. Flaleftist Dec 2020 #20

That's why The Framers gave us impeachment. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2020 #27

Right. Solomon Dec 2020 #32

It's worse than that malaise Dec 2020 #83

On these grounds: per ARTICLE II, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 1: lagomorph777 Dec 2020 #42

No. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #48

That is not only my assessment. lagomorph777 Dec 2020 #53

None of the quotes in your post supports your claim or contradicts my point StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #57

Sure, many forget he was not impeached for anything in the Mueller Report Rstrstx Dec 2020 #66

Because pardoning in exchange for something of value is itself a crime. tinrobot Dec 2020 #91

Hope you're right Marthe48 Dec 2020 #3

Who will challenge them? Anyway, they'd just say congress should have kicked him out unblock Dec 2020 #4

That DOJ memo is wrong. coti Dec 2020 #8

Will the pardon hold up and is the granting of the pardon a crime are separate questions unblock Dec 2020 #10

This StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #49

History will judge the complicit... Septua Dec 2020 #28

LOL, ok! nt USALiberal Dec 2020 #5

They're not unconstitutional, but he's not immune from prosecution coti Dec 2020 #6

Exactly. Solomon Dec 2020 #33

Wrong. See Article II Section2, Clause 1: lagomorph777 Dec 2020 #45

No. That means he cannot pardon an impeachment itself and undo a Senate conviction. NYC Liberal Dec 2020 #52

If I was Trump's lawyer, I might try that argument. lagomorph777 Dec 2020 #54

No, the text is not more open than that StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #61

I heard you were dead. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2020 #7

What if Putin tells him to pardon every person in a U.S. federal jail now? cureautismnow Dec 2020 #11

"Putin signs a bill granting lifetime immunity to former Russian presidents," sop Dec 2020 #17

In Russia they have lots of ways of dealing with former leaders exboyfil Dec 2020 #25

I think that the Supreme Court will rule that a constitutional amendment Under The Radar Dec 2020 #12

The pardons themselves are constitutional, but if they were done with a corrupt purpose, The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2020 #13

As usual, you are correct StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #21

Nope. They will stand, but Trump will be on the hook for his own crimes. Nt Fiendish Thingy Dec 2020 #14

The conflict: Mike Niendorff Dec 2020 #18

The president has no constitutional duty to see that the laws are faithfully executed. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #23

Article II, Section 3: Mike Niendorff Dec 2020 #36

You're right. I stand corrected StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #37

the stone, manafort and other cronies, yes. the rest, no. mopinko Dec 2020 #19

The Constitution gives the president virtually unlimited right to pardon without limitations StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #26

This is exactly why you don't elect a corrupt person marlakay Dec 2020 #30

Exactly StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #34

If the pardon was part of an illegal transaction, the entire transaction would be illegal. tinrobot Dec 2020 #92

No, it wouldn't StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #93

I disagree, and I think you could easily argue the case. tinrobot Dec 2020 #94

We need to amend the constitution to require a 3/4 majorty in the Senate for a pardon. KWR65 Dec 2020 #29

Then it wouldn't be a pardon StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #31

Yep. Pardon gotta be a pardon or its not a pardon. I think the only limitation on the pardon power Solomon Dec 2020 #35

I might be amenable Sgent Dec 2020 #56

...or that the President can't pardon for personal gain. tinrobot Dec 2020 #95

They will not find them unconstitutional. And who do you think has standing to challenge them. onenote Dec 2020 #38

This was covered on Rachel tonight Bayard Dec 2020 #40

He didn't say that. He said it could be a crime to pardon for corrupt purposes. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #50

I hope and pray it gets challenged in court. These corrupt actions need to be held accountable. Vivienne235729 Dec 2020 #43

I can't imagine any scenario in which this SCOTUS rules these pardons unconstitutional fishwax Dec 2020 #44

I can't imagine any scenario in which any other SCOTUS rules them unconstitutional onenote Dec 2020 #78

agreed fishwax Dec 2020 #79

I'm not convinced the Founding Fathers ever intended the pardons to release incarcerated killers. herding cats Dec 2020 #51

No, they don't merit review. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #58

That's disheartening to hear. herding cats Dec 2020 #59

I understand. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #60

The pardon power needs to go away, or in the least LIMITED. Constitution must be amended so this no onetexan Dec 2020 #62

The pardon power is actually one of the best things about our system StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #67

Agreeing 100%. The problem here, in my eyes, is that our forefathers in the constitution bluestarone Dec 2020 #70

Yes, at this point it is on them StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #73

Absolutely! bluestarone Dec 2020 #75

When I was screaming at the top of my lungs about SCOTUS appointments in 2016... herding cats Dec 2020 #63

A lot of posters are forgetting that clemency and pardon stopdiggin Dec 2020 #65

Thank you so much for this! StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #69

+1 ProfessorGAC Dec 2020 #76

Some people need to re-take American Civics. Tarc Dec 2020 #71

And how does that impeachment thingy work? Snake Plissken Dec 2020 #80

Impeachment didn't work Because voters decided to put senators in who wouldn't vote for it StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #85

Hmm, Tarc Dec 2020 #87

We never did before and let's hope we never will again elect someone who would pardon mass murderers LAS14 Dec 2020 #77

Nope, on several counts. RichardRay Dec 2020 #81

No they will not! Nt USALiberal Dec 2020 #86

Sorry, no, there's not a damn thing we can do about it Polybius Dec 2020 #89

He actual could do just that edhopper Dec 2020 #90