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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)

93. No, it wouldn't

Fri Dec 25, 2020, 02:27 PM

Dec 2020

The president could be prosecuted separately for the crime of bribery or obstruction of justice, but the pardon itself would stand since the president has the power to pardon anyone for any reason.

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These pardons will be challenged and the Supreme Court will find them unconstitutional. [View all] Snake Plissken Dec 2020 OP

I would certainly hope so because if they are not Bev54 Dec 2020 #1

It's not that he can't grant the pardons, it's that it's coti Dec 2020 #9

Yes I agree with that and then I think it is time that there be some kind Bev54 Dec 2020 #22

Sorry. L.Pharmstrong Dec 2020 #72

I could have written this myself! StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #74

Except he gets a pardon himself exboyfil Dec 2020 #24

Who would have standing to bring the matter into court? lastlib Dec 2020 #39

I would say the new DOJ would bring it to court Bev54 Dec 2020 #41

How do you prove corrupt purposes? StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #47

Letting filthy, murderous trash out of prison might do. nt Progressive Jones Dec 2020 #64

No, it won't StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #68

Well, how about putting time limits on pardons? Progressive Jones Dec 2020 #82

That, too, would require a Constitutional amendment StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #84

That's what pardons are for, letting people out of prison. nt EX500rider Dec 2020 #88

Exactly treestar Dec 2020 #46

If you have the goods on Trump and I believe they do Bev54 Dec 2020 #55

Unconstitutional on what grounds? Renew Deal Dec 2020 #2

I think on the grounds sarisataka Dec 2020 #15

Well, in that case, I agree. Renew Deal Dec 2020 #16

Good question, but the OP brings up a good point. Flaleftist Dec 2020 #20

That's why The Framers gave us impeachment. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2020 #27

Right. Solomon Dec 2020 #32

It's worse than that malaise Dec 2020 #83

On these grounds: per ARTICLE II, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 1: lagomorph777 Dec 2020 #42

No. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #48

That is not only my assessment. lagomorph777 Dec 2020 #53

None of the quotes in your post supports your claim or contradicts my point StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #57

Sure, many forget he was not impeached for anything in the Mueller Report Rstrstx Dec 2020 #66

Because pardoning in exchange for something of value is itself a crime. tinrobot Dec 2020 #91

Hope you're right Marthe48 Dec 2020 #3

Who will challenge them? Anyway, they'd just say congress should have kicked him out unblock Dec 2020 #4

That DOJ memo is wrong. coti Dec 2020 #8

Will the pardon hold up and is the granting of the pardon a crime are separate questions unblock Dec 2020 #10

This StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #49

History will judge the complicit... Septua Dec 2020 #28

LOL, ok! nt USALiberal Dec 2020 #5

They're not unconstitutional, but he's not immune from prosecution coti Dec 2020 #6

Exactly. Solomon Dec 2020 #33

Wrong. See Article II Section2, Clause 1: lagomorph777 Dec 2020 #45

No. That means he cannot pardon an impeachment itself and undo a Senate conviction. NYC Liberal Dec 2020 #52

If I was Trump's lawyer, I might try that argument. lagomorph777 Dec 2020 #54

No, the text is not more open than that StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #61

I heard you were dead. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2020 #7

What if Putin tells him to pardon every person in a U.S. federal jail now? cureautismnow Dec 2020 #11

"Putin signs a bill granting lifetime immunity to former Russian presidents," sop Dec 2020 #17

In Russia they have lots of ways of dealing with former leaders exboyfil Dec 2020 #25

I think that the Supreme Court will rule that a constitutional amendment Under The Radar Dec 2020 #12

The pardons themselves are constitutional, but if they were done with a corrupt purpose, The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2020 #13

As usual, you are correct StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #21

Nope. They will stand, but Trump will be on the hook for his own crimes. Nt Fiendish Thingy Dec 2020 #14

The conflict: Mike Niendorff Dec 2020 #18

The president has no constitutional duty to see that the laws are faithfully executed. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #23

Article II, Section 3: Mike Niendorff Dec 2020 #36

You're right. I stand corrected StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #37

the stone, manafort and other cronies, yes. the rest, no. mopinko Dec 2020 #19

The Constitution gives the president virtually unlimited right to pardon without limitations StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #26

This is exactly why you don't elect a corrupt person marlakay Dec 2020 #30

Exactly StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #34

If the pardon was part of an illegal transaction, the entire transaction would be illegal. tinrobot Dec 2020 #92

No, it wouldn't StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #93

I disagree, and I think you could easily argue the case. tinrobot Dec 2020 #94

We need to amend the constitution to require a 3/4 majorty in the Senate for a pardon. KWR65 Dec 2020 #29

Then it wouldn't be a pardon StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #31

Yep. Pardon gotta be a pardon or its not a pardon. I think the only limitation on the pardon power Solomon Dec 2020 #35

I might be amenable Sgent Dec 2020 #56

...or that the President can't pardon for personal gain. tinrobot Dec 2020 #95

They will not find them unconstitutional. And who do you think has standing to challenge them. onenote Dec 2020 #38

This was covered on Rachel tonight Bayard Dec 2020 #40

He didn't say that. He said it could be a crime to pardon for corrupt purposes. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #50

I hope and pray it gets challenged in court. These corrupt actions need to be held accountable. Vivienne235729 Dec 2020 #43

I can't imagine any scenario in which this SCOTUS rules these pardons unconstitutional fishwax Dec 2020 #44

I can't imagine any scenario in which any other SCOTUS rules them unconstitutional onenote Dec 2020 #78

agreed fishwax Dec 2020 #79

I'm not convinced the Founding Fathers ever intended the pardons to release incarcerated killers. herding cats Dec 2020 #51

No, they don't merit review. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #58

That's disheartening to hear. herding cats Dec 2020 #59

I understand. StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #60

The pardon power needs to go away, or in the least LIMITED. Constitution must be amended so this no onetexan Dec 2020 #62

The pardon power is actually one of the best things about our system StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #67

Agreeing 100%. The problem here, in my eyes, is that our forefathers in the constitution bluestarone Dec 2020 #70

Yes, at this point it is on them StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #73

Absolutely! bluestarone Dec 2020 #75

When I was screaming at the top of my lungs about SCOTUS appointments in 2016... herding cats Dec 2020 #63

A lot of posters are forgetting that clemency and pardon stopdiggin Dec 2020 #65

Thank you so much for this! StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #69

+1 ProfessorGAC Dec 2020 #76

Some people need to re-take American Civics. Tarc Dec 2020 #71

And how does that impeachment thingy work? Snake Plissken Dec 2020 #80

Impeachment didn't work Because voters decided to put senators in who wouldn't vote for it StarfishSaver Dec 2020 #85

Hmm, Tarc Dec 2020 #87

We never did before and let's hope we never will again elect someone who would pardon mass murderers LAS14 Dec 2020 #77

Nope, on several counts. RichardRay Dec 2020 #81

No they will not! Nt USALiberal Dec 2020 #86

Sorry, no, there's not a damn thing we can do about it Polybius Dec 2020 #89

He actual could do just that edhopper Dec 2020 #90