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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 02:15 PM Jan 2012

Matt Stoller rebuts his critics [View all]

Last edited Tue Jan 10, 2012, 02:46 PM - Edit history (1)

via Daily Kos

A post I wrote two weeks ago, How Ron Paul Challenges Liberals, created something of a stir. It was the most commented article on Naked Capitalism, ever. And it kicked up a series of arguments among Democrats and civil libertarians. Glenn Greenwald, who has been talking about these problems in prominent forums, followed up with this remarkable post (and then this one), and has taken many insults as a result. This in and of itself is worth noting – the slurring of those who critique the structure of modern liberalism is an essential tool in the preservation of the status quo. I’m going to highlight a few of the reactions here without much of a rebuttal, because I think the reactions themselves illustrate the struggle that boxes in traditional partisan Democrats.

First, let’s go back to the idea of the piece. The basic thesis was that the same financing structures that are used to finance mass industrial warfare were used to create a liberal national economy and social safety. Liberals supported national mobilization in favor of warfare and the social safety net during the New Deal and World War II (and before that, during the Civil War and WWI), but splintered when confronted with a wars like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The corruption of the financial channels and the destruction of the social safety net now challenges this 20th century conception of liberalism at its core (which is heavily related to the end of cheap oil). Ron Paul has knitted together a coalition of those who dislike war financing, which includes a host of unsavory and extremist figures who dislike icons such as Abraham Lincoln and FDR for their own reasons. But Paul, by criticizing American empire explicitly and its financing channels in the form of the Federal Reserve, also enrages liberals by forcing them to acknowledge that their political economy no longer produces liberal ends.

- more -

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/10/1053278/-

(emphasis added)

I mean, Paul's kooky economic theories that drive his desire to end the Fed is supposed to now be hyped?

Ron Paul: We're All Austrians?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002117079

David Atkins, who Stoller's piece is intended to rebut, responds:

<...>

No, the danger to liberalism comes when individuals become so single-mindedly upset with the current state of affairs that they begin to make irrational arguments about the warlike nature of the Federal Reserve, or to put libertarian whackadoos on a pedestal.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/matt-stoller-takes-aim-misses-wildly-by.html


Krugman on Ron Paul's theories:



Ron Paul is just another corporate tool, end the Fed and eliminate corporate taxes, keep oil subsidies and tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas, and agree to whatever else is in Grover Norquist's pledge, which he signed it in 2010 and 2008:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/atrfiles/files/files/120111-federalpledgesigners.pdf

http://www.atr.org/rep-ron-paul-signs-presidential-taxpayer-a1489

Ron Paul on Cordray appointment: ‘The president is not a dictator or a king’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002124972



59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Your link does not work. Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #1
Fixed. Thanks. n/t ProSense Jan 2012 #3
Here's the link to Stoller's column in original. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #7
Yes, ProSense Jan 2012 #9
So? People should read an article before letting you "discuss" it. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #11
Stoller has now teamed up with the Paul people - he is forever tainted. banned from Kos Jan 2012 #16
Why? ProSense Jan 2012 #18
Great. Just in case anyone missed it, the correct link to the article by Stoller... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #20
Thanks for the direct link. That is a fascinating read! MrCoffee Jan 2012 #24
Why you are welcome, sir, it's my pleasure to provide said link... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #28
Actually, you linked to your link of Stoller's original article. Jack Riddler linked to Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #13
Kick! n/t ProSense Jan 2012 #2
Stoller & GG are right about the illiberal ends of the modern economy and state finance. Krugman leveymg Jan 2012 #4
Correct, but some people are all about the labels, you know? JackRiddler Jan 2012 #6
Well ProSense Jan 2012 #8
You continue to misrepresent Greenwald and now Stoller... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #12
What? ProSense Jan 2012 #15
Yes, really. Luminous Animal is correct MrCoffee Jan 2012 #22
OK ProSense Jan 2012 #27
The question asked in the article is which type of politician is preferable MrCoffee Jan 2012 #30
Actually, he is defining a hypothetical dilemma and then elaborates in the following paragraphs... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #26
And ProSense Jan 2012 #29
He presents the hypothetical dilemma and then dismisses it as immaterial... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #32
No, ProSense Jan 2012 #33
You illustrate precisely why it is important to read the entire article... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #34
Really? ProSense Jan 2012 #37
Again, he is laying out what libertarians believe... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #40
I'm ProSense Jan 2012 #43
But wait a second.. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #48
Yeah ProSense Jan 2012 #50
I don't think it's fair of you to state that "Obama=Paul" girl gone mad Jan 2012 #52
OK ProSense Jan 2012 #54
Can you be more specific here? girl gone mad Jan 2012 #55
Can we agree then? girl gone mad Jan 2012 #57
Past a point, "failed policies, including the lack of oversight" is structural failure. leveymg Jan 2012 #17
Wrong ProSense Jan 2012 #25
"Regulators who turn a blind eye to enforcement is a people failure." girl gone mad Jan 2012 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author JackRiddler Jan 2012 #5
Stoller is correct. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #10
You ProSense Jan 2012 #14
You really should work toward getting better reading comprehension. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #19
OK ProSense Jan 2012 #21
So the President agrees with Paul on marriage equality. And they state the same religious Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #31
Here's ProSense Jan 2012 #47
"because they both believe Ron Paul's message on the Fed" girl gone mad Jan 2012 #41
No ProSense Jan 2012 #49
I'm still confused about why you think this means Stoller has to post.. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #53
Because ProSense Jan 2012 #59
they are consumed with destroying the Federal Reserve and Ron Paul is their ally banned from Kos Jan 2012 #23
Congrats, Prosense! girl gone mad Jan 2012 #42
you are jealous, aren't you? banned from Kos Jan 2012 #45
Haha, misguided MFrohike Jan 2012 #56
I just came across Stoller's stupid screed this am and literally laughed out loud. jefferson_dem Jan 2012 #35
I honestly don't understand the bile MrCoffee Jan 2012 #36
Reasonable question - good luck looking for an answer. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #38
Monetary policy is not a scheme for liberals to wage large scale wars. banned from Kos Jan 2012 #44
Good thing your title line has nothing to do with what Stoller said. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #46
I wish you all would laugh out loud at Paul and the President on marriage equality on Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #39
EarlG has it right when it comes to Ron Paul. nt stevenleser Jan 2012 #51
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