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ElboRuum

(4,717 posts)
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:36 PM Oct 2012

So you thought you could sell the things you own? Yeah, about that... [View all]

According to an appellate court ruling, maybe not freely as an "owned" item, at least if the goods were produced outside of the U.S. I present for your consideration the following article:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04?pagenumber=1

At issue in Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons is the first-sale doctrine in copyright law, which allows you to buy and then sell things like electronics, books, artwork and furniture as well as CDs and DVDs, without getting permission from the copyright holder of those products.

Under the doctrine, which the Supreme Court has recognized since 1908, you can resell your stuff without worry because the copyright holder only had control over the first sale.


However, what is being challenged is whether or not foreign made products fall under the auspices of this law. If the appellate court ruling that they are not is upheld, this could have far reaching (and in my humble opinion, tragically silly) effects on what "ownership" actually constitutes.

Now the Supreme Court is going to hear oral arguments on this. The following statements from the article say it best:

Both Ammori and Band worry that a decision in favor of the lower court would lead to some strange, even absurd consequences. For example, it could become an incentive for manufacturers to have everything produced overseas because they would be able to control every resale.


(snip)

In its friend-of-the-court brief, eBay noted that the Second Circuit’s rule “affords copyright owners the ability to control the downstream sales of goods for which they have already been paid.” What’s more, it “allows for significant adverse consequences for trade, e-commerce, secondary markets, small businesses, consumers and jobs in the United States.”


The idea of "ownership" as it is viewed in the U.S. has seen encroachment from parties looking to extend the revenue stream beyond the initial point of sale. Software licensing rather than software ownership, for one example, turns the idea of ownership on its head. It is a statement that just because you pay for a product is not an indication of ownership of that product. Software licensing has advanced the idea of "loanership", where you purchase the "right to use a thing" but only within certain agreed upon parameters where "loanership" can be revoked, and your ability to sell the thing to another can be curtailed or removed.

This decision extends that encroachment to the idea of anything made outside of the U.S. as a legal loophole of the first-sale doctrine which is the linchpin of modern ideas of ownership. 'Once you sell me a thing and I take ownership of that thing it is not yours anymore, therefore you are not owed a dime from my selling it to someone else.'

IMHO this is getting downright silly. If the SCOTUS upholds this decision, the silly will probably cease to be conceptual and become much more material.
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Thanks for OP'ing this, K&R n/t PowerToThePeople Oct 2012 #1
Interesting, so if you buy something it is not really yours to do with what you wish. sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #2
And I think that's just it... ElboRuum Oct 2012 #6
Strange this isn't being settled in lower court leftstreet Oct 2012 #3
Is software licensing at issue here? LiberalAndProud Oct 2012 #4
Yes but if I remove the software from my own computer I can sell it, which is essentially the same cherokeeprogressive Oct 2012 #7
Unfortunately, it was ruled that that is copyright infringement: See Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc. Poll_Blind Oct 2012 #23
Wow, I stand corrected. Apologies to LiberalAndProud. n/t cherokeeprogressive Oct 2012 #25
I wish to hell you were right, though. Seriously, if "first sale" is being chipped away at... Poll_Blind Oct 2012 #32
So my thrift store is violating the law by selling computer games??? Odin2005 Oct 2012 #33
Not violating the law...infringing on copyright. There's a difference. Plus, it really depends... Poll_Blind Oct 2012 #34
Ebooks come to mind. You can't even loan out an ebook for more than 14 days! nt tblue37 Oct 2012 #9
Bingo! My first thought upon reading this post SheilaT Oct 2012 #19
me too. and libraries are joining in that trend, which bothers me no end. when there are no HiPointDem Oct 2012 #28
In a college library in 1979 I discovered bound issues SheilaT Oct 2012 #30
Well, that was the point of the encroachment on ownership I was using as an example. ElboRuum Oct 2012 #11
The case is about a physical item. n/t PowerToThePeople Oct 2012 #12
I'm truly confused. LiberalAndProud Oct 2012 #14
furniture designs are copywritten, hence legally so is the furniture. TeamPooka Oct 2012 #21
So who would police this? Skidmore Oct 2012 #5
That's one of the bits of silly that I thought might flow out of upholding this... ElboRuum Oct 2012 #8
If it's upheld, can you give your old software away? LiberalAndProud Oct 2012 #10
Depends on what a claimant could ask for in payment... ElboRuum Oct 2012 #13
They'll figure out something Hydra Oct 2012 #15
It depends on how absurd a given license is Posteritatis Oct 2012 #16
Back in the early 1990's, when I had my first computer, SheilaT Oct 2012 #20
with bar codes and such, the technology to police it is being set in place, i imagine. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #29
Then it's not your problem to dispose of their possessions AnnaLee Oct 2012 #17
More of that quantum weirdness in what you just said... ElboRuum Oct 2012 #18
Happening with fabrics too KT2000 Oct 2012 #22
So will I be arrested if I destroy "their" crap? Generic Other Oct 2012 #24
Anyone who sells second hand would close down. McCamy Taylor Oct 2012 #26
In the dawn of the tech age I remember reading something that spoke to this. It was HiPointDem Oct 2012 #27
LOL!!!! I know someone trying to sell their Honda. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2012 #31
It's not just software, it's theoretically everything Marthe48 Oct 2012 #35
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