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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
37. Really?
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 05:30 PM
Jan 2012
You illustrate precisely why it is important to read the entire article...

"Perhaps it’s worthy to argue that lives saved by presumed expanded health care coverage in 2013 are worth the lives lost in the drug war. It is potentially a tough calculation (depending on whether you think coverage will in fact expand in 2013)"...

Then, his next paragraph begins with this:

"But this obscures the real question, of why Paul disdains the Fed..."

In other words, perhaps this is worthy but this is why I think it isn't.


Stoller's argument is bullshit!

But this obscures the real question, of why Paul disdains the Fed (and implicitly, why liberals do not), and the relationship between the Federal Reserve and American empire. If you go back and look at some of libertarian allies, like Fox News’s Judge Napolitano, they will answer that question for you. Napolitano hates, absolutely hates, Abraham Lincoln. He sometimes slyly refers to Lincoln as America’s first dictator. Libertarians also detest Woodrow Wilson, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

What connects all three of these Presidents is one thing – big ass wars, and specifically, war financing. If you think today’s deficits are bad, well, Abraham Lincoln financed the Civil War pretty much entirely by money printing and debt creation, taking America off the gold standard. He oversaw the founding of the nation’s first national financial regulator, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which chartered national banks and forced them to hold government debt to back currency they issued. The dollar then became the national currency, and Lincoln didn’t even back those dollars by gold (and gold is written into the Constitution). This financing of the Civil War was upheld in a series of cases over the Legal Tender Act of 1862. Prior to Lincoln, it was these United States. Afterwards, it was the United States. Lincoln fought the Civil War and centralized authority in the Federal government to do it, freeing slaves and transforming America into one nation.

<...>

This is why Ron Paul can critique the Federal Reserve and American empire, and why liberals have essentially no answer to his ideas, arguing instead over Paul having character defects. Ron Paul’s stance should be seen as a challenge to better create a coherent structural critique of the American political order. It’s quite obvious that there isn’t one coming from the left, otherwise the figure challenging the war on drugs and American empire wouldn’t be in the Republican primary as the libertarian candidate. To get there, liberals must grapple with big finance and war, two topics that are difficult to handle in any but a glib manner that separates us from our actual traditional and problematic affinity for both. War financing has a specific tradition in American culture, but there is no guarantee war financing must continue the way it has. And there’s no reason to assume that centralized power will act in a more just manner these days, that we will see continuity with the historical experience of the New Deal and Civil Rights Era. The liberal alliance with the mechanics of mass mobilizing warfare, which should be pretty obvious when seen in this light, is deep-rooted.

Liberal economists have dismantled Paul's loony economic theories. It's completely disingenuous to claim that no liberals have. As Krugman says (paraphrase), they keep insisting that they're right despite the evidence to the contrary.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Your link does not work. Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #1
Fixed. Thanks. n/t ProSense Jan 2012 #3
Here's the link to Stoller's column in original. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #7
Yes, ProSense Jan 2012 #9
So? People should read an article before letting you "discuss" it. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #11
Stoller has now teamed up with the Paul people - he is forever tainted. banned from Kos Jan 2012 #16
Why? ProSense Jan 2012 #18
Great. Just in case anyone missed it, the correct link to the article by Stoller... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #20
Thanks for the direct link. That is a fascinating read! MrCoffee Jan 2012 #24
Why you are welcome, sir, it's my pleasure to provide said link... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #28
Actually, you linked to your link of Stoller's original article. Jack Riddler linked to Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #13
Kick! n/t ProSense Jan 2012 #2
Stoller & GG are right about the illiberal ends of the modern economy and state finance. Krugman leveymg Jan 2012 #4
Correct, but some people are all about the labels, you know? JackRiddler Jan 2012 #6
Well ProSense Jan 2012 #8
You continue to misrepresent Greenwald and now Stoller... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #12
What? ProSense Jan 2012 #15
Yes, really. Luminous Animal is correct MrCoffee Jan 2012 #22
OK ProSense Jan 2012 #27
The question asked in the article is which type of politician is preferable MrCoffee Jan 2012 #30
Actually, he is defining a hypothetical dilemma and then elaborates in the following paragraphs... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #26
And ProSense Jan 2012 #29
He presents the hypothetical dilemma and then dismisses it as immaterial... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #32
No, ProSense Jan 2012 #33
You illustrate precisely why it is important to read the entire article... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #34
Really? ProSense Jan 2012 #37
Again, he is laying out what libertarians believe... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #40
I'm ProSense Jan 2012 #43
But wait a second.. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #48
Yeah ProSense Jan 2012 #50
I don't think it's fair of you to state that "Obama=Paul" girl gone mad Jan 2012 #52
OK ProSense Jan 2012 #54
Can you be more specific here? girl gone mad Jan 2012 #55
Can we agree then? girl gone mad Jan 2012 #57
Past a point, "failed policies, including the lack of oversight" is structural failure. leveymg Jan 2012 #17
Wrong ProSense Jan 2012 #25
"Regulators who turn a blind eye to enforcement is a people failure." girl gone mad Jan 2012 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author JackRiddler Jan 2012 #5
Stoller is correct. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #10
You ProSense Jan 2012 #14
You really should work toward getting better reading comprehension. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #19
OK ProSense Jan 2012 #21
So the President agrees with Paul on marriage equality. And they state the same religious Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #31
Here's ProSense Jan 2012 #47
"because they both believe Ron Paul's message on the Fed" girl gone mad Jan 2012 #41
No ProSense Jan 2012 #49
I'm still confused about why you think this means Stoller has to post.. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #53
Because ProSense Jan 2012 #59
they are consumed with destroying the Federal Reserve and Ron Paul is their ally banned from Kos Jan 2012 #23
Congrats, Prosense! girl gone mad Jan 2012 #42
you are jealous, aren't you? banned from Kos Jan 2012 #45
Haha, misguided MFrohike Jan 2012 #56
I just came across Stoller's stupid screed this am and literally laughed out loud. jefferson_dem Jan 2012 #35
I honestly don't understand the bile MrCoffee Jan 2012 #36
Reasonable question - good luck looking for an answer. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #38
Monetary policy is not a scheme for liberals to wage large scale wars. banned from Kos Jan 2012 #44
Good thing your title line has nothing to do with what Stoller said. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #46
I wish you all would laugh out loud at Paul and the President on marriage equality on Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #39
EarlG has it right when it comes to Ron Paul. nt stevenleser Jan 2012 #51
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