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Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)

43. Nebulous pardons covering vague descriptions of possible crimes is not settled law

Reply to StarfishSaver (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 18, 2021, 10:57 AM

Jan 2021

Nixon's pardon was never tested in court.

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A president CAN pardon people who are involved in crimes that lead to his impeachment [View all] StarfishSaver Jan 2021 OP

Oh, Delphinus Jan 2021 #1

That's probably a lot of these people haven't been charged with anything too serious sboatcar Jan 2021 #2

Funny thing about pardons, you can still be charged with a crime & be formally forced to admit Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #7

Has the power of pardons that are issued before conviction been tested by SCOTUS? Raven123 Jan 2021 #14

There's no question that pardons prior to conviction are valid StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #40

Nebulous pardons covering vague descriptions of possible crimes is not settled law Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #43

I agree. Nixon was in the gray area StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #46

File it in the category of "Perfectly Legal" even if Perfectly Vile and Unjust msfiddlestix Jan 2021 #49

True in some respects StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #50

yes, but we tried in 2016. How was it possible for us imagine our opponents would choose msfiddlestix Jan 2021 #55

I don't think we (the collective "we") tried hard enough in 2016 StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #56

All good points. msfiddlestix Jan 2021 #57

Great information, thanks for posting. nt Maru Kitteh Jan 2021 #31

Great explanation. Thanks! /eom BComplex Jan 2021 #41

Thank you for your tireless efforts to stop the spread of misinformation. femmedem Jan 2021 #3

Thanks. StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #10

its why they are waiting to throw the book the the insurrectionists Squidly Jan 2021 #4

sboatcar Squidly Jan 2021 #6

I'm wondering if he can sell pardons Raven123 Jan 2021 #5

The Constitution doesn't prevent a president from selling pardons StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #8

That's what I'm thinking. So the money he's collecting could be confiscated. Right? Raven123 Jan 2021 #12

Possibly. And he could also go to jail. StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #24

Oh, that's my favorite part. Maru Kitteh Jan 2021 #34

there was a case where a governor was selling pardons and got caught..... getagrip_already Jan 2021 #20

There's no way that he's giving them away. Harker Jan 2021 #9

There would be some criminal law about using government office for private enrichment, I am sure. nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #11

He is selling pardons. That who he is.. a corrupt grifter. ananda Jan 2021 #29

How does $2 million per pardon sound to you? Here's some evidence for that... bullwinkle428 Jan 2021 #47

Can it be a pre-emptive/presumptive pardon for any and all crimes? N/T lapucelle Jan 2021 #13

not pre-emptive... getagrip_already Jan 2021 #18

How does Ford's pardon of Nixon fit into your theory? N/T lapucelle Jan 2021 #21

ford pardoned nixon for crimes already committed... getagrip_already Jan 2021 #22

You're right. It hasn't been tested. And I don't think it would hold up StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #25

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one here.... getagrip_already Jan 2021 #27

Pre-trial pardons have been done in federal and state cases StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #32

Yes. hlthe2b Jan 2021 #15

An interesting point in the article: kentuck Jan 2021 #16

Can a pardon obstruct a Senate trial. BrightKnight Jan 2021 #28

Well I guess that settles it, if the DU's Resident eLawyer hath spoken Tarc Jan 2021 #17

Yes, I've always known that Turin_C3PO Jan 2021 #19

Settled law would imply settled cases. Lempert's opinion doesn't make it so. lagomorph777 Jan 2021 #23

Not true. Settled law also means the Constitution laid it out plainly, it's undisputable StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #26

The wording is pretty plain, and I read it 100% differently than you do. lagomorph777 Jan 2021 #30

Are you a lawyer with any training in Constitutional interpretationand analysis? StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #36

I am not, and I made no claim as to it being settled law. lagomorph777 Jan 2021 #37

StarfishSaver, can congress step in for future issues like this? Can they pass a new BComplex Jan 2021 #45

No, they can't StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #48

The iron is hot. An Amendment to limit the pardoning power of the President should be offered Raven123 Jan 2021 #33

If we're going to amend the Constitution, there are many more areas that have a much higher priority StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #38

But pardoning insurrectionists for the crime of insurrection puts Trump in serious jeopardy in trial Pobeka Jan 2021 #35

Yes. Definitely that StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #39

We may well see the Supreme Court weighing in on some of the pardons before it is all over. Chainfire Jan 2021 #42

That's a good analogy StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #44

Law is not mathematics; and to my knowledge, this question has never been tested struggle4progress Jan 2021 #51

Law is not mathematics, but it is a lot of "they said what they meant and meant what they said"" StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #52

A pardoned person cannot plead the fifth on that particular crime because he is in no legal danger. keithbvadu2 Jan 2021 #53

That's true in theory but not always in practice StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #54

How is it not a matter of unsettled law? kcr Jan 2021 #58

Because the Constitution settled it StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #59

The Constitution is self-settling? kcr Jan 2021 #60

For the most part, yes it is StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #61

If it's so clear, why are there so many scholars who disagree? kcr Jan 2021 #62

You won't find many scholars disagreeing StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #63