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Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)
12. Person w pardon, even public pardon, can be charged in court. See Burdick SCotUS 1915
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 08:02 AM
Jan 2021

Charge any and all of the criminals and force them to use (and reveal) their pardon!

According to the 1915 Supreme Court decision, you can be forced to use your pardon in court. And using the pardon is to admit guilt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States

The pardon does not actually apply until the defendant proffers it in court in answer to a charge. Nobody can proffer it for them. If the defendant does not proffer the pardon, then they can be convicted.

So,

1) Prosecutors should formally ask every pardoned person if they admit guilt.

2) If they do not, they should be charged.

3) Then they would be forced to admit their guilt, formally, in a court of law, where it will be recorded.

The Supreme Court ruled in Burdick that a pardon carries "an imputation of guilt, acceptance a confession of it".[2]


Burdick v. United States, 236 U.S. 79 (1915), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that:

* A pardoned person must introduce the pardon into court proceedings, otherwise the pardon must be disregarded by the court.

* To do that, the pardoned person must accept the pardon.
If a pardon is rejected, it cannot be forced upon its subject.

A pardon is an act of grace, proceeding from the power entrusted with the execution of the laws, which exempts the individual on whom it is bestowed from the punishment the law inflicts for a crime he has committed. It is the private though official act of the executive magistrate, delivered to the individual for whose benefit it is intended.... A private deed, not communicated to him, whatever may be its character, whether a pardon or release, is totally unknown and cannot be acted on.[1]

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Ppl can claim anything..courts will want proof Thekaspervote Jan 2021 #1
He could write their name down on a piece of paper claiming proof. duforsure Jan 2021 #4
Nope. TwilightZone Jan 2021 #27
Well he won't be President? pwb Jan 2021 #2
I think the area of concern is so-called "secret pardons"... JHB Jan 2021 #8
So invented thoughts need action? Secret pardons? pwb Jan 2021 #13
Has been done in the past. Two FBI agents were pardoned by RR but grantcart Jan 2021 #18
There's secret and there's secret StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #30
The OP was referring to a spot on O'Donnell by an expert on pardons grantcart Jan 2021 #33
A few things StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #36
I was simply trying to recreate the context on "The Last Word" that the OP had obviously seen grantcart Jan 2021 #44
I understand your concern about limiting the pardon. But that idea isn't a good one StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #46
You misread my point about the 2/3 Senate vote grantcart Jan 2021 #47
I understood your point StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #49
Precisely. This is the big mark against allowing "secret" pardons... JHB Jan 2021 #3
Exactly, duforsure Jan 2021 #6
Person w pardon, even public pardon, can be charged in court. See Burdick SCotUS 1915 Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #12
Right, but he still could illegally sell pardons duforsure Jan 2021 #15
He could try to sell them to suckers. But I don't think secret pardons have been tested in court. nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #19
You're right,that's why the laws need to be expanded to eliminate loopholes duforsure Jan 2021 #22
No StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #32
Secret doesn't mean that no one on earth knows about it StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #31
That's what /should/ happen (assuming "secret" in the first place) and what would... JHB Jan 2021 #35
I'm not saying he wouldn't try it - he's likely to try anything StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #38
The fact he won't be President after noon tomorrow obamanut2012 Jan 2021 #5
As long as there isn't a complete list given, duforsure Jan 2021 #9
Yeah, not gonna happen obamanut2012 Jan 2021 #10
Nope. Not even. StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #39
Maybe the date/time of the pardon(s) have to be time-stamped and witnessed to prove no_hypocrisy Jan 2021 #7
But he has many fools like Navarro and even his dumbass kids that could claim JI7 Jan 2021 #11
They need to have real-time proof, not just their word StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #40
Is a president allowed to sell pardons? DeeDeeNY Jan 2021 #14
Yes he could using his agents, duforsure Jan 2021 #17
He can use agents, but that does not make it legal in any way. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #20
Right, duforsure Jan 2021 #25
Threads like this are beyond silly. brooklynite Jan 2021 #16
It's a loophole that could be exploited , duforsure Jan 2021 #21
Why? Arazi Jan 2021 #23
Because it assumes... brooklynite Jan 2021 #24
Trump has committed overt felonies and has been protected for decades Arazi Jan 2021 #45
I think there should be a numerical limitation on pardons whether secret or otherwise. dreamland Jan 2021 #26
There's no hole. TwilightZone Jan 2021 #28
I know legally he can't give pardons after leaving office, duforsure Jan 2021 #29
Pardons mean guilt. apnu Jan 2021 #34
The Supreme Court has blessed pre-conviction pardons and not all pardons mean guilt onenote Jan 2021 #42
Pardons are documented. onenote Jan 2021 #37
Thank you. StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #41
Thank you all for this most interesting and informative thread. niyad Jan 2021 #43
Trump is touching the Pardon process. Ergo, the Pardon process will turn to crap. Hugin Jan 2021 #48
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