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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
36. A few things
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 10:34 AM
Jan 2021

Yes. The pardon would have to be verifiable. I don't know if a witness verifying an oral pardon would be sufficient under these circumstances, given the lack of credibility of just about anyone who would be close enough to him to witness it. That would be too much of a chance for him to take, especially since it would be too late to go back and do it right. He would no doubt put it in writing, just to be sure. And most likely he'd submit it to the Justice Department, but just not release the name to the public.

He could try a blanket pardon of the trespassers, but that would be very problematic. The example you gave, for instance, would probably be a valid pardon since, while it doesn't clearly identify all of the persons pardoned, It does pardon them for a specific crime which probably would satisfy any specificity or particularity requirements of court would impose. It's very similar to the amnesty granted to the Vietnam War draft evaders.

But the problem is, by pardoning them for one specific crime, he still leaves them open to prosecution for any number of other crimes they committed i
at the Capitol that day. It doesn't do any good to get pardon for trespassing if you're still wide open to being prosecuted for assault, breaking and entering, illegal presence on federal property, insurrection, sedition, etc. Prosecutors would have a field day coming up with that weren't included in the pardon to nail these people on.

He could try to go broader, but I don't think that would work either. If he tried to pardon everyone who was there for every possible crime they could have committed at the Capitol that day, not only would that leave too many people out (what about the people who helped plan and carry it out, but weren't physically on site?) and too broadly include too many people (a Hill staffer not involved in the riot but who embezzled $100k from the office account that day), I don't think a court would find that to be a pardon at all since it's far too broad and unspecific.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Ppl can claim anything..courts will want proof Thekaspervote Jan 2021 #1
He could write their name down on a piece of paper claiming proof. duforsure Jan 2021 #4
Nope. TwilightZone Jan 2021 #27
Well he won't be President? pwb Jan 2021 #2
I think the area of concern is so-called "secret pardons"... JHB Jan 2021 #8
So invented thoughts need action? Secret pardons? pwb Jan 2021 #13
Has been done in the past. Two FBI agents were pardoned by RR but grantcart Jan 2021 #18
There's secret and there's secret StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #30
The OP was referring to a spot on O'Donnell by an expert on pardons grantcart Jan 2021 #33
A few things StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #36
I was simply trying to recreate the context on "The Last Word" that the OP had obviously seen grantcart Jan 2021 #44
I understand your concern about limiting the pardon. But that idea isn't a good one StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #46
You misread my point about the 2/3 Senate vote grantcart Jan 2021 #47
I understood your point StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #49
Precisely. This is the big mark against allowing "secret" pardons... JHB Jan 2021 #3
Exactly, duforsure Jan 2021 #6
Person w pardon, even public pardon, can be charged in court. See Burdick SCotUS 1915 Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #12
Right, but he still could illegally sell pardons duforsure Jan 2021 #15
He could try to sell them to suckers. But I don't think secret pardons have been tested in court. nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #19
You're right,that's why the laws need to be expanded to eliminate loopholes duforsure Jan 2021 #22
No StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #32
Secret doesn't mean that no one on earth knows about it StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #31
That's what /should/ happen (assuming "secret" in the first place) and what would... JHB Jan 2021 #35
I'm not saying he wouldn't try it - he's likely to try anything StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #38
The fact he won't be President after noon tomorrow obamanut2012 Jan 2021 #5
As long as there isn't a complete list given, duforsure Jan 2021 #9
Yeah, not gonna happen obamanut2012 Jan 2021 #10
Nope. Not even. StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #39
Maybe the date/time of the pardon(s) have to be time-stamped and witnessed to prove no_hypocrisy Jan 2021 #7
But he has many fools like Navarro and even his dumbass kids that could claim JI7 Jan 2021 #11
They need to have real-time proof, not just their word StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #40
Is a president allowed to sell pardons? DeeDeeNY Jan 2021 #14
Yes he could using his agents, duforsure Jan 2021 #17
He can use agents, but that does not make it legal in any way. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #20
Right, duforsure Jan 2021 #25
Threads like this are beyond silly. brooklynite Jan 2021 #16
It's a loophole that could be exploited , duforsure Jan 2021 #21
Why? Arazi Jan 2021 #23
Because it assumes... brooklynite Jan 2021 #24
Trump has committed overt felonies and has been protected for decades Arazi Jan 2021 #45
I think there should be a numerical limitation on pardons whether secret or otherwise. dreamland Jan 2021 #26
There's no hole. TwilightZone Jan 2021 #28
I know legally he can't give pardons after leaving office, duforsure Jan 2021 #29
Pardons mean guilt. apnu Jan 2021 #34
The Supreme Court has blessed pre-conviction pardons and not all pardons mean guilt onenote Jan 2021 #42
Pardons are documented. onenote Jan 2021 #37
Thank you. StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #41
Thank you all for this most interesting and informative thread. niyad Jan 2021 #43
Trump is touching the Pardon process. Ergo, the Pardon process will turn to crap. Hugin Jan 2021 #48
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