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flotsam

(3,268 posts)
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 01:59 PM Jan 2021

Killer Cars-No they weren't [View all]

Listed as the most famous people killers of the 60's (Corvair) and 70's (Pinto) were both basically victims of a smear campaign by overly litigious ambulance chasers. The Corvair suffered a suspension effect called "camber-tuck" which it at the time shared with all VW products and also the highly esteemed Porsche product line. The Pinto was a radical change in car design-Ford aimed to produce a car weighing under 2000 pounds and costing under 2000 dollars. They wound up producing over 3 million of them. 27 people died after other cars rear-ended them at high rates of speed.

Here's what Wikipedia says about the actual designs:

Corvair:
A 1972 safety commission report conducted by Texas A&M University concluded that the 1960–1963 Corvair possessed no greater potential for loss of control than its contemporary competitors in extreme situations.[25] The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) issued a press release in 1972 describing the findings of NHTSA testing from the previous year. NHTSA had conducted a series of comparative tests in 1971 studying the handling of the 1963 Corvair and four contemporary cars—a Ford Falcon, Plymouth Valiant, Volkswagen Beetle, and Renault Dauphine—along with a second-generation Corvair (with its completely redesigned, independent rear suspension). The 143-page report reviewed NHTSA's extreme-condition handling tests, national crash-involvement data for the cars in the test as well as General Motors' internal documentation regarding the Corvair's handling.[29] NHTSA went on to contract an independent advisory panel of engineers to review the tests. This review panel concluded that "the 1960–63 Corvair compares favorably with contemporary vehicles used in the tests [...] the handling and stability performance of the 1960–63 Corvair does not result in an abnormal potential for loss of control or rollover, and it is at least as good as the performance of some contemporary vehicles both foreign and domestic."

Pinto:
A Rutgers Law Review article by former UCLA law professor Gary T. Schwartz (see Section 7.3 NHTSA Investigation above), examined the fatality rates of the Pinto and several other small cars of the time period. He noted that fires, and rear-end fires, in particular, are a very small portion of overall auto fatalities. At the time only 1% of automobile crashes would result in fire and only 4% of fatal accidents involved fire, and only 15% of fatal fire crashes are the result of rear-end collisions.[138] When considering the overall safety of the Pinto, subcompact cars as a class have a generally higher fatality risk. Pintos represented 1.9% of all cars on the road in the 1975–76 period. During that time, the car represented 1.9% of all "fatal accidents accompanied by some fire." This implies the Pinto was average for all cars and slightly above average for its class.[139] When all types of fatalities are considered, the Pinto was approximately even with the AMC Gremlin, Chevrolet Vega, and Datsun 510. It was significantly better than the Datsun 1200/210, Toyota Corolla, and VW Beetle.[138] The safety record of the car in terms of fire was average or slightly below average for compacts, and all cars respectively. This was considered respectable for a subcompact car. Only when considering the narrow subset of rear-impact, fire fatalities for the car were somewhat worse than the average for subcompact cars. While acknowledging this is an important legal point, Schwartz rejected the portrayal of the car as a firetrap.[140]

Both were radical design changes and change brings resistance. I dreamed of a Corvair but my Mom had heard of the "death trap" and begged me not to buy one. My family owned more than one Pinto and loved them. If I could buy either at a good price and condition today I would do it tomorrow.

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Killer Cars-No they weren't [View all] flotsam Jan 2021 OP
My favorite car was a '76 Pinto. malthaussen Jan 2021 #1
I had a 79 for my first car sweetloukillbot Jan 2021 #7
I would have liked a Mustang. malthaussen Jan 2021 #28
I had a '74. lagomorph777 Jan 2021 #15
That's The One I Had ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #16
That is a very skewed review of the Pinto. Phoenix61 Jan 2021 #2
Learned to drive in a Corvair. I think that's why I still prefer small cars. I liked it, except for Hoyt Jan 2021 #3
I also learned to drive in one MoonlitKnight Jan 2021 #31
Big oil did not like the fuel efficient cars. pwb Jan 2021 #4
Pity, we could have been spared Ralph Nader's four presidential bids. sop Jan 2021 #5
Had three Pintos in my lifetime. gibraltar72 Jan 2021 #6
I was a dune buggy guy flotsam Jan 2021 #9
In 1969 or early 1970, I bought a 1960 red Corvair two-door. MineralMan Jan 2021 #8
Have you heard of the new three position Lucas switch? flotsam Jan 2021 #11
That was always the case. MineralMan Jan 2021 #12
Lucas, the man onethatcares Jan 2021 #14
As in "What the Hell is a Zener diode? N/T flotsam Jan 2021 #20
among other tricks like onethatcares Jan 2021 #21
You mean the super-hot heat sink near the headlight ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2021 #25
We drove a '76 Pinto for several years and loved it ironflange Jan 2021 #10
The Pinto is a good candidate for a Restomod Best_man23 Jan 2021 #13
A Guy In My Neighborhood... ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #17
The Corvair's problem was its dealers and buyers jmowreader Jan 2021 #18
Don't forget early VW spare tires. Had to check tire pressure often. JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2021 #23
That lever burned so many Americans. NutmegYankee Jan 2021 #30
had a black corvair convertable with red interior. all the cool malt shop kids loved it! nt msongs Jan 2021 #19
I once got a speeding ticket in a Pinto... bluecollar2 Jan 2021 #22
You gotta slow down in the parking lot, bluecollar. nt JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2021 #24
Downhill bluecollar2 Jan 2021 #26
It was misery driving my mildly schizophrenic grandmother around in her Pinto. hunter Jan 2021 #27
VW was saved by the lack of performance from the engine. NutmegYankee Jan 2021 #29
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