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DonCoquixote

(13,981 posts)
121. The problem with America
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 01:35 PM
Oct 2012

Is that we expect our leaders to be symbolic heads of state as well as practical types. In the UK, you have the Royal family to do the various cultural aspects, and you have a bunch of boring politicans and journalists to handle the boring but important stuff. It of course, does not always work out, but the fact that the "entertainment" and "political" aspects are cleanly,clearly separated allows there to be space for sanity, IMHO.

Yes the Uk has tabloids and reality shows, but there is space for serious newspapers like the Guardian, and of course, the BBC. Here, even the MSNBCS and CURRENTS have to make the ratings, so even their fresher, nutritious offerings come with a heaping dash of loudmouth sauce, with a side of carnival-fried hucksters. The PBS is always a target, and even they are known more for Big Bird and British programs than the documentaries that draw the daggers of the conservatives. Thanks to budget cuts, PBS has taken a more "cautious" stance, which in plain English means they are SCARED. It is not accident that Mitt went to the moderator and threatened to fire him; if Mitt did not add Big Bird to the mix, most people would not have cared.

The debate assessment is a fine example of this. Yes, Obama was a wonk, yes he needed to boil it down into bullet points, yes, his debate trainers need to be sacked, and replaced with the likes of Rachel Maddow or (ugh) even that damned Dig Dawg, Bill Clinton. His attempt to be civil, indeed,his very belief in civility, has been his great weakness. Yes, there is a civil veneer of America, but truth be told, as none other than Big Dawg said: "When people are insecure, they'd rather have somebody who is strong and wrong than someone who's weak and right." As the rest of the world sees, America is insecure, and it loves bullies because of that. Obama wants that civil society, that meritocracy that shows up every so often, but he, and frankly WE, need to realize that is NOT the dominating force in our minds and hearts.

The very fact that we reward Mitt for lying, the fact we consider Obama a failure for NOT lying, NOT yelling, and NOT resorting to tactics like the "Gish Gallop", is, in an of itself, a very damning example of our weakness as a culture. Mitt's antics would have gotten him thrown off most decent High School debate teams, especially for using a technique known as the Gish Gallop, which is so well recognized that even shady, pass-the-hat preachers avoid it, unless they know the audience is a REAL DENSE bunch of SUCKERS.

Then again, as the fellow who got the "haircut" can tell you, Mitt has not been held to account for himself since high school. And therein lies the secret appeal of the GOP; they sell the idea that as long as you have the money, you have a God-given right,indeed, a duty, to be as big of a bully and an asshole as you want.

I have to end on a high note. The reason the GOP is pulling out all the stops is because they know, whether by demographics, or by China getting sick of funding our war machine, or the rising sea tides eating our cities, that the Men and women who have called the shots here in America will simply have that power taken from them! Provided we keep our heads about us, we can take actions in both the long and short term to ensure that, when the powers stumble, we make sure they do NOT get back up. A large part of that will be changing our national culture, where the Mitt Romneys are not praised for behavior that civilized societies would NOT reward.

PS: for those who have not heard the term Gish Gallop: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Since Americans appear to be stupid enough to be convinced adigal Oct 2012 #1
Months of Romney blunders reversed by one night. Arugula Latte Oct 2012 #2
were jjust looking for an excuse not to vote for Obama lunasun Oct 2012 #8
Exactly. renie408 Oct 2012 #75
Part of me feels the exact same way----- Grammy23 Oct 2012 #139
I swear to god, I literally got queasy when I checked RCP tonight and renie408 Oct 2012 #144
Before you soiled yourself, did you actually look at who conducted the polls? nt. OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #155
Sometimes? cilla4progress Oct 2012 #151
I haven't heard much lately about what the President has done to save our economy? kentuck Oct 2012 #3
start with saving General Motors DonCoquixote Oct 2012 #113
President Obama saved the economy Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2012 #134
It does appear 4-5% have been swayed by ridiculous pro-Romney cheerleading in the media. reformist2 Oct 2012 #4
I would agree with you, but the president did not really defend his record. hrmjustin Oct 2012 #5
What record would that be... kentuck Oct 2012 #6
Word B2G Oct 2012 #9
well everybody's heard newblewtoo Oct 2012 #49
Gotta agree cilla4progress Oct 2012 #89
Well, Vermont is always talking about secession - adigal Oct 2012 #132
don't ever misunderestimate laruemtt Oct 2012 #122
Couldn't you qualify that to "the stupidity virgogal Oct 2012 #142
and an then analysis warrior1 Oct 2012 #7
Yep. And I think this tells us that a small but significant amount of the President's support cali Oct 2012 #10
Agreed. And if Biden blows it on Thursday B2G Oct 2012 #12
I doubt it... regnaD kciN Oct 2012 #18
Yeah well, the conventional wisdom last week was that B2G Oct 2012 #25
The VP debate is being hyped ewagner Oct 2012 #56
Biden can handle it - he is an old pro at this adigal Oct 2012 #133
That's exactly what I've been saying. There was a part that was sqwishy Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #152
You could have added Gallup, but that would have taken away from your point, right? Nt speedoo Oct 2012 #11
Gallup was posted 235 times here yeasterday WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #13
Yeah, the reality that you are selling sucks. speedoo Oct 2012 #24
No, drama-queen attitudes suck... regnaD kciN Oct 2012 #27
And that's where I go all the time. GoneOffShore Oct 2012 #39
When do we show race tightening in New York and California? HockeyMom Oct 2012 #41
68 million is about 70% of the people that will vote. former9thward Oct 2012 #123
It also doesn't count laundry_queen Oct 2012 #135
Oh, I'm sure the OP will bring up Gallup... regnaD kciN Oct 2012 #65
Do these polls reflect the latest jobs numbers? Sugarcoated Oct 2012 #14
i understand you were so diappointed in obama during the debate. you made it clear, loudly. BUT... seabeyond Oct 2012 #15
Kentuck is right B2G Oct 2012 #19
that is bullshit. then you have not been listening. why? nt seabeyond Oct 2012 #33
I guess I missed the Big Bird Bounce B2G Oct 2012 #37
You must be relying on the MSM to inform you. Mistake. CakeGrrl Oct 2012 #112
Excellent post, B2G Carolina Oct 2012 #118
Agreed...one curious point is this alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #20
Oh for Christ's sake... WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #21
So what's your point alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #26
I know, right? B2G Oct 2012 #28
I hope Will took what you said to heart, seabeyond. bigtree Oct 2012 #44
It is not Will that exaggerated. Big Blue Marble Oct 2012 #108
agreed... yet, seabeyond Oct 2012 #117
The problem with America DonCoquixote Oct 2012 #121
Strong and wrong will win every time. laundry_queen Oct 2012 #136
Yes,though I must ask DonCoquixote Oct 2012 #140
Oh, that was because of 2 reasons laundry_queen Oct 2012 #148
The big question here... regnaD kciN Oct 2012 #16
The swing state poll that I'm most interested in is Ohio's Larkspur Oct 2012 #17
So what your saying is the ARG Ohio polls Sugarcoated Oct 2012 #22
Yep fugop Oct 2012 #35
I would find it very hard to believe Sugarcoated Oct 2012 #36
"An entire Summer and early Fall's worth of gains has been all but wiped out." kentuck Oct 2012 #23
Do people really take ARG and Siena woolldog Oct 2012 #29
Not if you don't like the results WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #32
Correction: woolldog Oct 2012 #45
If You Posted ARG During The 08 Primaries ( They Leaned Clinton) You Got Crucified DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2012 #103
I guess you don't like survey usa? bigtree Oct 2012 #47
At same link: O: 45 R: 44 (Ohio) SurveyUSA My Pet Goat Oct 2012 #30
Rand/American Life Panel abumbyanyothername Oct 2012 #53
Which is consistent with the hypothesis... regnaD kciN Oct 2012 #67
I thought they were in Sebass1271 Oct 2012 #31
Who will take the trouble of deconstructing the polls to determine how Baitball Blogger Oct 2012 #34
Prosense bigtree Oct 2012 #51
Do you think this is permanent? Sugarcoated Oct 2012 #38
This bump, like all others, will be short lived.....when did you become.. Joe the Revelator Oct 2012 #40
Wednesday night. WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #48
I think this still has debate residue bigtree Oct 2012 #73
first of all, it's been a statistically close race all along bigtree Oct 2012 #42
Yes, because the bump isn't already fading in new polls. jeff47 Oct 2012 #43
"Wait a couple weeks, and the polls will revert." WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #52
4 < 2 (nt) jeff47 Oct 2012 #150
Good grief. You're hyping RW polls? ProSense Oct 2012 #46
I think the op is still trying to justify all of the poutrage about the debate bigtree Oct 2012 #61
Nobody is in more danger alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #63
Will Pitt is an excellent writer, poilitical strategist and observer, and a fine and decent man bigtree Oct 2012 #69
I agree with all that alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #70
Huh -- interesting obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #82
I know, right? Washington Times shows Romney leading obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #79
Two weaks ago ... GeorgeGist Oct 2012 #50
Here's something to get excited about: ProSense Oct 2012 #54
+1 bigtree Oct 2012 #64
And it could swing back the other way in a heartbeat. n/t IDoMath Oct 2012 #55
Michigan: Obama 48%, Romney 45% Romulox Oct 2012 #57
Exciting: ProSense Oct 2012 #59
To be clear, the numbers I posted are from EPIC's latest poll. Prosense is confused. nt Romulox Oct 2012 #66
I take ProSense's point to be that EPIC polling has alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #68
Right, but that ignores a lot of detail. Michigan was thought to be "out of play" during the time Romulox Oct 2012 #71
Obama is still up ProSense Oct 2012 #78
LOL. A stunning level of analysis with someone OBVIOUSLY familiar with the facts! nt Romulox Oct 2012 #84
Maybe alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #83
No, Michigan wasn't "always going to be in play". A month ago, the story was that PACS pulled their Romulox Oct 2012 #90
So the PACS and Romney are putting money back in? alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #93
Haven't seen a big write up, but the commercials have begun again, yes... nt Romulox Oct 2012 #98
Fair enough, then it's in play alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #102
I guess the sarcasm confused you. ProSense Oct 2012 #72
Indeed it did, since Michigan being "in play" is a big change from the recent past. Romulox Oct 2012 #76
No, the ProSense Oct 2012 #80
My first post to this thread: "Michigan: Obama 48%, Romney 45%" Romulox Oct 2012 #97
I don't think it's any accident that all these "polls" abumbyanyothername Oct 2012 #58
So, now we think attacking the polls is OK? renie408 Oct 2012 #81
If the polls are as screwed up as the last Pew poll, yes. Is that a problem? nt. OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #156
Do you guys read Nate Silver? meadowlark5 Oct 2012 #60
+1 bigtree Oct 2012 #62
I think it is time for me to stick my head in the sand..or throw up. renie408 Oct 2012 #74
Just don't do it at the same time. Baitball Blogger Oct 2012 #109
WASHINGTON TIMES poll? obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #77
How about the Pew Research Center poll that has Romney up by 4? renie408 Oct 2012 #86
I didn't know you and Will Pitt cowrote the OP obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #88
You missed the "Zogby" part WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #96
No, I didn't obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #99
Do yourself a favor and check out Pew demographics catbyte Oct 2012 #95
That does it ... I'm staying home. Doesn't matter any way. JoePhilly Oct 2012 #85
lol obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #92
I'm going back to hating this country get the red out Oct 2012 #87
DU people are SO going to freak out when Gallup comes out Shivering Jemmy Oct 2012 #91
Do tell why DU will freak out and need to get a grip obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #101
Sure Shivering Jemmy Oct 2012 #105
and you, honeypie, need to not be telling people what to do. cali Oct 2012 #104
*shrugs* Shivering Jemmy Oct 2012 #107
shrug away, pumpkin cali Oct 2012 #128
Luckily this can be turned around starting Thursday night and with WI_DEM Oct 2012 #94
Thanks marions ghost Oct 2012 #119
Oh well. People are fickle. Four weeks is a long time, though. TwilightGardener Oct 2012 #100
This post really depresses me and I'm not sure exactly why. Maybe it's coalition_unwilling Oct 2012 #106
A 1964 Landslide Was Never In The Cards. What Led You To Believe Obama Could Get 62% Of The Vote? DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2012 #114
Well, there for a time I believed Romney was on track to alienate every demographic other coalition_unwilling Oct 2012 #158
If The Republicans Keep Alienating People Of Color DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2012 #159
They have to make it look close B Calm Oct 2012 #110
Get a grip, Will. n/t K Gardner Oct 2012 #111
+1. Chorophyll Oct 2012 #127
+2. nt. OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #154
This is exactly why Carolina Oct 2012 #115
We don't need another Hero marions ghost Oct 2012 #120
We do need a HERO! Carolina Oct 2012 #126
Have you noticed it's a different world now? marions ghost Oct 2012 #130
have you noticed he put the crooks Carolina Oct 2012 #137
You'll see changes in a second term marions ghost Oct 2012 #146
self delete because of duplication Carolina Oct 2012 #116
And leave it to you to gleefully, eagerly, cliffordu Oct 2012 #124
Derp WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #125
Your constant, relentless, breathless reposting of every negative item written cliffordu Oct 2012 #129
I hope ALL Democrats understand - America likes what it perceives as fighters. calimary Oct 2012 #131
I don't buy that entirely marions ghost Oct 2012 #143
I predict that Ryan will behave the same as Romney and the media will portray him as that fighter, AlinPA Oct 2012 #145
A-well-a everybody's heard about the bird deaniac21 Oct 2012 #138
New CNN Ohio poll Obama up by 4 with Likely voters, 10 among registered voters WI_DEM Oct 2012 #141
Freak Out DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2012 #147
How would either candidate do if they were to actually have a real debate? acdrug1135 Oct 2012 #149
Seriously??.... OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #153
Well you did your part. gulliver Oct 2012 #157
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