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yellowcanine

(36,777 posts)

170. "if changing the way we eat results in better health....."

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 04:12 PM

Oct 2012

I don't. What I am discrediting is claims not grounded in science that some kind of change occurred in the nutrition of wheat when the transition from tall wheat to semi-dwarf wheat was made. I don't read books about this stuff. I would rather rely on the scientific studies themselves, not what someone else says about them. And as I understand it, this is not the same as what Taubes is saying anyway. He is arguing for a low carb diet, not a low wheat diet. They are not the same thing. So I am not sure where you are coming from here. I noted that people are different, if something is working for you so be it. If you want to eliminate wheat from your diet, fine, but don't assume that you can't get fat if you do. If you take in too many calories for the amount you metabolize each day you will gain weight, whether those calories are in the form of carbs, fat, or protein.

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Modern wheat a "perfect, chronic poison," doctor says [View all] Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 OP

Who knows if the claims are true flamingdem Oct 2012 #1

better yet JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #4

It's good! femrap Oct 2012 #32

Yes, but depending on who I listen to Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #6

It's not wheat and it tastes better than wheat pasta flamingdem Oct 2012 #15

Spelt contains just as much gluten and gliadin as standard wheat muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #60

I don't think that I have a gluten problem, but I'm concerned about the flamingdem Oct 2012 #62

It's been altered by genetic research for thousands of years muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #79

So the question is whether some grains are easier on the digestion flamingdem Oct 2012 #86

That's not quite true ... DarleenMB Oct 2012 #90

Yes, Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #99

It stimulates your appetite sense Oct 2012 #136

basically inedible? oh really? that's funny since it's the world's more widely cultivated grain & HiPointDem Oct 2012 #104

Hang on, you think it's not true that wheat has been changed for thousands of years muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #131

The wheat is the product of old-fashioned Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #97

The change made in the 60s was called the semi-dwarf gene. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #134

There you go again Retrograde Oct 2012 #143

Thanks for the nice words but I have to disagree on the pasta..... yellowcanine Oct 2012 #161

Already did that. Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #95

it's wheat. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #96

You forgot FAT. GeorgeGist Oct 2012 #16

Spelt has gluten nt K8-EEE Oct 2012 #27

And you are left with ... DarleenMB Oct 2012 #89

Love my Paleo diet truebrit71 Oct 2012 #107

Yep, this is how I'm eating now. Rainngirl Oct 2012 #113

Absolutely! sense Oct 2012 #141

You're probably being atacked by the vehement vegans--there are a flock of them here. diane in sf Oct 2012 #153

Thanks for the suggestion. sense Oct 2012 #280

I cut all grains, legumes and dairy in July. Shanti Mama Oct 2012 #223

Ideally I'd cut all of the above with the exception of meat occasionally. gateley Oct 2012 #154

2 delux's(?) and an order of fries please. Smickey Oct 2012 #270

I had just returned to Seattle for my niece's wedding after living in NC for three years. gateley Oct 2012 #272

spelt is wheat and has gliadin. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #93

Pasta is made from durum wheat, which has gluten but so does spelt. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #147

Or shirataki (noodles made from konnyaku) REP Oct 2012 #192

Trial and Error JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #2

You are not being flippant at all Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #9

You might be interested in this TEDTalk from Dr. Terry Wahls... drokhole Oct 2012 #31

Thank you very much for the link Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #76

You're welcome! drokhole Oct 2012 #172

I was a fat child and probably femrap Oct 2012 #47

My mother In laws JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #232

So I should be femrap Oct 2012 #290

Even better! JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #291

I just joined femrap Oct 2012 #292

Does you Dr. say it's necessary to have some kind of grain product? flamingdem Oct 2012 #17

You do not need grains at all DarleenMB Oct 2012 #94

Grains aren't necessary unless you literally have nothing else to eat Abq_Sarah Oct 2012 #222

meat also isn't necessary. neither are eggs, avocado, yogurt, etc. in fact, as many people who HiPointDem Oct 2012 #227

You are saying that diet helps your R.A.? I wonder if it would help fibromyalgia. LittlestStar Oct 2012 #117

One of my friends who sense Oct 2012 #132

Wow that is such good news! I have been so worried about her, only 65 and so sick with LittlestStar Oct 2012 #171

My friend is 63. sense Oct 2012 #184

Meh. Bread and pasta are staples in my house, and TwilightGardener Oct 2012 #3

Doesn't mean you wouldn't be better off without it. Jester Messiah Oct 2012 #10

I'm Italian. You might as well ask Asians to give up rice, or Mexicans TwilightGardener Oct 2012 #12

I'm Scottish and Irish mostly and OriginalGeek Oct 2012 #19

Yep, pizza night isn't going anywhere in my household. I also have TwilightGardener Oct 2012 #22

The answer is using other strains of wheat BlueToTheBone Oct 2012 #40

I doubt I'll ever learn to make anything from any kind of wheat OriginalGeek Oct 2012 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author HiPointDem Oct 2012 #164

I'm Irish-Italian, and I'm a carbohydrate addict! This thread is very educational and inspirational! WinkyDink Oct 2012 #200

That's true ... if you're talking about bread and pasta made with white flour, i.e. wallpaper paste. Doremus Oct 2012 #46

I believe it, as I know many people who don't eat wheat.... cbdo2007 Oct 2012 #5

try to eat food in its whole state if you must do processed then try to do alternate grains+organic lunasun Oct 2012 #7

Another sensible idea Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #11

"diabetic nation coming" shanti Oct 2012 #48

Organic Wheat, by definition, can't be genetically engineered wheat, can it? ~nt 99th_Monkey Oct 2012 #182

No Richard D Oct 2012 #279

start by avoiding the center aisles at the store - fresh foods are on the perimeter. piratefish08 Oct 2012 #8

Yeah, I noticed that Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #45

We've always done most of the cooking on the weekends and japple Oct 2012 #59

We are having a discussion in my home Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #105

Excellent advice (IMO), with one exception, hardy veggies (squash, broccoli, snap peas, etc). Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #70

Sheesh. I had no idea that wheat had changed mzmolly Oct 2012 #13

Well the claim that it did is not verified by good science. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #35

I tend to agree with you mzmolly Oct 2012 #37

Exercise and limit caloric intake? That's just crazy talk. SunSeeker Oct 2012 #41

Yes it is. Much easier to just quit eating wheat. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #101

Actually, quite a number of researchers have demonstrated pnwmom Oct 2012 #49

"there are people with gliadin sensitivity who do not have classic celiac." No one says otherwise. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #81

People with gluten sensitivity and Celiac are having an antibody response that cannot be managed pnwmom Oct 2012 #165

What's your take on gluten sensitivity/allergy? nt wtmusic Oct 2012 #58

I think I gave my take. It occurs. It is a continuum. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #84

Hence my skepticism with the article Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #106

Yellowcanine Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #174

Agronomy/crop science. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #178

I didn't think so Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #249

it hasn't. flour in grandma's day had plenty of gliadin -- else her bread wouldn't have risen. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #116

I've come to that conclusion after doing research. mzmolly Oct 2012 #119

What I keep trying to tell people, gluten/gliadin is needed for good bread. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #150

+1. You need to *add* gluten if you're making whole wheat bread, unless you want a door stop. n/t gkhouston Oct 2012 #157

i LOVE fresh bread Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #177

Fresh skillet corn bread with butter and honey, omg. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #179

I avoid it, for food allergies reasons nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #14

"There should be peer reviewed studies......." There are. They do not support the faddists. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #42

That one study doesn't support gluten abstinence as weight loss device. pnwmom Oct 2012 #51

Yes it is only one study which is ONE MORE than the gluten free faddists can point to. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #71

Unless people are producing antibodies to an ingredient in beans, pnwmom Oct 2012 #162

10% is a relatively small number though. About 75% of the world has some lactose intolerance, for yellowcanine Oct 2012 #175

10% is a very significant number. Twenty years ago, they thought only about 1 American in 4500 pnwmom Oct 2012 #180

they just don't know why people are more susceptible now. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #241

No, it's more than that. I'm curious why it is important to you to be so dismissive pnwmom Oct 2012 #281

Please don't question my motives. I disagree with you and I have given my reasons which are based yellowcanine Oct 2012 #282

That's not what you said before. pnwmom Oct 2012 #284

Wow you do like to quibble. Gluten sensitivity is real, but yellowcanine Oct 2012 #287

MOST people are not following a gluten free diet, and the fraction that do pnwmom Oct 2012 #288

No but Dr. Wheat Belly thinks they should. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #289

Actually we have seen an increase in Celiacs and Chrons nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #72

We have seen an increase because of better diagnosis. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #122

My brother works with Chrohns nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #125

"there is something in the food we eat, that wasn't there" yellowcanine Oct 2012 #158

gmo comes often nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #198

GMO wheat? There are no commercial GMO wheat varieties released. None. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #203

Check with Montsanto nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #210

No - you switched topics. There are no commercial GMO wheat varieties. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #213

Try to pay attention nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #221

We were talking about wheat and gluten so that was the reference point yellowcanine Oct 2012 #235

when i said talk to monsanto nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #236

It is hard to follow you when you don't complete thoughts. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #237

ok, complete though nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #240

"Something is up but try to find the funding...." yellowcanine Oct 2012 #242

And what i am telling you is that there is something extra in food nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #243

So do you work for the grain industry? DarleenMB Oct 2012 #98

Wow. Take cheap shots much? yellowcanine Oct 2012 #112

It's not a food fad. sense Oct 2012 #146

"if changing the way we eat results in better health....." yellowcanine Oct 2012 #170

I think Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #186

You seem like a very reasonable person. sense Oct 2012 #194

Internet discussions have a tendency to bring out our pat answers to things Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #268

that's funny coming from the person who wrote this post demonstrating lack of knowledge HiPointDem Oct 2012 #121

Not a fair question Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #181

Tri and tetrasaccharides contain galactose, and no human has the enzyme beta-galactosidase-- eridani Oct 2012 #231

OK, gliadin may stimulate the appetite, but... TreasonousBastard Oct 2012 #18

Good info - thanks for doing the research! OriginalGeek Oct 2012 #23

There is also gliaden in spelt, one of the other so called "primitive wheats" the gluten-free yellowcanine Oct 2012 #52

trial and error magical thyme Oct 2012 #20

Another good technique is to wrap fillings in lettuce leaves. Arugula Latte Oct 2012 #38

appetite/cravings is a very complicated thing. yellowcanine Oct 2012 #211

It can be very difficult to change dietary habits, particularly long-term. closeupready Oct 2012 #21

This guy has his science utterly and completely wrong jeff47 Oct 2012 #24

Very interesting 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #26

+1,000 ... HuckleB Oct 2012 #135

+1. though (some) varieties of wheat have been bred for increased gluten. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #115

Thanks! Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #187

Usually you can start at wikipedia. jeff47 Oct 2012 #202

True, I went there Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #251

If you're correct then people with celiac could eat unkneaded wheat products...and they can't TheCruces Oct 2012 #283

This is basic chemistry, not opinion. jeff47 Oct 2012 #286

Well yeah, reducing carbohydrate intake is a good idea 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #25

I bought the Nook version of that book K8-EEE Oct 2012 #29

WTF are you talking about? jeff47 Oct 2012 #34

I'm talking about science 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #39

Sure, if you want a Paleolithic life expectancy of 33 years wtmusic Oct 2012 #55

Life expectancies actually dropped after we figured out agriculture 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #61

Life expectancies dropped after we started sitting on our asses. wtmusic Oct 2012 #66

It's not quite that simple 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #73

The neolithic revolution has little in common with modern diet wtmusic Oct 2012 #75

Actually if you look at the food ratios most people enjoy 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #87

From your link: wtmusic Oct 2012 #91

life expectancies dropped because of larger, more settled (and more unequal) populations & HiPointDem Oct 2012 #228

And a monoculture based diet 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #245

yes, people have historically gotten shorter as they started living in cities, because cities HiPointDem Oct 2012 #276

"Common wheat was first domesticated in Western Asia during the early Holocene...." HiPointDem Oct 2012 #159

You can feel that way if you like 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #168

nothing to do with how i 'feel'. i'm fairly sure i've read more nutrition studies than most people HiPointDem Oct 2012 #226

So I post from NCBI 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #248

just the first link i came upon that stated the fact (which i already knew from graduate HiPointDem Oct 2012 #273

"If evolution is real why are there still monkeys?" ????? yellowcanine Oct 2012 #256

Not really a joke. Well maybe, sorta 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #263

Well, some cynical types Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #189

the pyramid (which is no longer a pyramid, btw) is published under the auspices of usda, but it's HiPointDem Oct 2012 #197

"Upon release of the guidelines, the cattle, egg, and dairy industries went ballistic." 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #252

wait, i thought it was the 'grain lobbyists' writing these things? now it's the 'meat lobbyists"? HiPointDem Oct 2012 #266

In that case it was 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #269

you really don't know much about the extensive process that leads to the creation of us nutrition HiPointDem Oct 2012 #278

Here's how you're getting the science wrong jeff47 Oct 2012 #204

I decided to try wheat-free for 3 weeks, still at it 3 months later K8-EEE Oct 2012 #28

nothing wrong with that. but why the need for false claims to sell a diet that 'works'? HiPointDem Oct 2012 #229

I agree Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #254

In the preface to his "The End of Overeating", Doctor David Kessler hedgehog Oct 2012 #30

What happened in 1988? waddirum Oct 2012 #191

Well, isn't that the question? If there was an abrupt rise in obesity, there hedgehog Oct 2012 #199

There is also the need Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #255

I think it's pretty clear why americans are heavier on average than in the past: they eat more & HiPointDem Oct 2012 #230

And even then, the question remains Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #257

because food was more readily available. just like dogs eat more when they get more food. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #262

True, Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #265

capitalism. but regardless of why food is more readily available, the simple explanation of taking HiPointDem Oct 2012 #267

I think there is concern Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #271

i agree that cultural/societal factors are in play, and that people are concerned about additives HiPointDem Oct 2012 #274

There is a very intersting observation of lab animals, well worth further investigation hedgehog Oct 2012 #275

"This is an interesting collection of data, but it's very difficult to interpret them," HiPointDem Oct 2012 #277

I live for that poison. wtmusic Oct 2012 #33

yes that and "supersizing" demokatgurrl Oct 2012 #64

Absolutely - to sell more food, just redefine what a "normal" portion is wtmusic Oct 2012 #68

I agree. HappyMe Oct 2012 #83

You don't need carbs. sense Oct 2012 #152

OK. wtmusic Oct 2012 #190

I believe you. sense Oct 2012 #195

There's also a wide range of glycemic indices within carbs. wtmusic Oct 2012 #196

You need carbs. jeff47 Oct 2012 #206

yes it is and that is why laundry_queen Oct 2012 #215

Your brain likes glucose but it's not the sole source of fuel Abq_Sarah Oct 2012 #224

Sure, if you're not particularly fond of your liver. jeff47 Oct 2012 #225

Please site sense Oct 2012 #261

Actually your sense Oct 2012 #260

You might read catrose Oct 2012 #36

Good Calories, Bad Calories is sense Oct 2012 #57

Our pizza secret catrose Oct 2012 #69

This 'new' protein was first noted in wheat in 1830 muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #43

<<What does one eat to be healthy?>> abumbyanyothername Oct 2012 #44

"Grains and processed sugars are generally foods of an ancient army...." yellowcanine Oct 2012 #67

If the gliadin protein Seedersandleechers Oct 2012 #50

If this were true, if there were really opiates in wheat... MindPilot Oct 2012 #74

I have never heard this before, but I have lost 25 pounds in the last 6 months by NC_Nurse Oct 2012 #53

A protein that's an opiate? KamaAina Oct 2012 #54

Genetically modified food should be labeled so people can make more informed decisions abelenkpe Oct 2012 #56

OK, but there's no evidence GM food is harmful. wtmusic Oct 2012 #63

Can't track evidence one way or another abelenkpe Oct 2012 #80

How do you think illnesses caused by foods are tracked? HuckleB Oct 2012 #149

How so? abelenkpe Oct 2012 #155

Are you kidding? HuckleB Oct 2012 #167

It won't help anyone but those who will jack up prices on "non-GMO" products. HuckleB Oct 2012 #148

"There's no evidence GM food is harmful" - except for when it causes cancer.. truebrit71 Oct 2012 #160

That preliminary study has been shown to have more holes than a screen door. HuckleB Oct 2012 #166

You believe what you choose... truebrit71 Oct 2012 #185

It's not about belief. It's about evidence. HuckleB Oct 2012 #188

Yup... truebrit71 Oct 2012 #234

Unfortunately, you are choosing to ignore the consensus of the science. HuckleB Oct 2012 #238

Yup. GMO is prefectly fine and Monsanto are pure as the driven snow.. truebrit71 Oct 2012 #244

Again, offering up meaningless red herrings does not change the scientific consensus. HuckleB Oct 2012 #250

LOL laundry_queen Oct 2012 #216

So you don't understand how science works? HuckleB Oct 2012 #219

Thanks. Took science in uni laundry_queen Oct 2012 #233

That's nice. HuckleB Oct 2012 #239

PS: EU rejects French scientist report linking GM corn to cancer Read more: http://www.nydailynews HuckleB Oct 2012 #253

The doctor in the OP isn't talking about GM crops NickB79 Oct 2012 #77

I see abelenkpe Oct 2012 #156

Lemme fix that for you... jeff47 Oct 2012 #207

This is a very interesting OP - I like the way that you posed this question yardwork Oct 2012 #65

I am taking an SSRI as well for quite some time Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #92

I think that different types of SSRIs have different side effects. yardwork Oct 2012 #173

Well, I guess that explains Honey Boo Boo... MindPilot Oct 2012 #78

ha ha - is wheat in Cheatos? nt flamingdem Oct 2012 #100

People with blood type A (AA, AO and AB) do not have natural antigens against grains. Type OO has DhhD Oct 2012 #82

I'm O- and I have no issue with wheat. Odin2005 Oct 2012 #212

I don't eat human chow (breakfast cereals) anymore marions ghost Oct 2012 #85

plus the organic kind is $5 a box now! flamingdem Oct 2012 #102

yes I see organic chow going up faster than gas in California... marions ghost Oct 2012 #120

I read Dr. Davis's book DarleenMB Oct 2012 #88

I've been following sense Oct 2012 #169

I stopped eating ALL grains 30 days ago. I have lost a significant amount of weight... truebrit71 Oct 2012 #103

My doc told me that sugar and wheat stuff should be controlled substances like heroin.... Bigmack Oct 2012 #108

I have a feeling your doc is right, gliatin or no. I think the carbs are killer. nt LittlestStar Oct 2012 #123

the doctor has a cookbook coming out on the heels of his diet book. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #109

Aarrrggh. HuckleB Oct 2012 #137

grow your own food msedano Oct 2012 #110

There's a discussion about this over here... Ian David Oct 2012 #111

+1,000,000,000 ... 000 HuckleB Oct 2012 #118

Good post. It will be totally ignored. nt Codeine Oct 2012 #133

Thanks. And You're right. But I still collect my giant check as a shill for Big Wheat. n/t Ian David Oct 2012 #138

I think its worth going wheat-free for a while and see if I drop these 15 pounds off. LittlestStar Oct 2012 #114

I stopped eating wheat & most other grains after watching a video of this guy,,,, KarenS Oct 2012 #124

Is gluten the new Candida? HuckleB Oct 2012 #126

<----- that be me nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #128

If nothing else the new anti-grain trend is good to counteract flamingdem Oct 2012 #140

I don't see any of the big selling diets as doing much good. HuckleB Oct 2012 #142

Cutting out all breads tapermaker Oct 2012 #127

That's great you could turn things around! flamingdem Oct 2012 #139

Here's another Faux pas Oct 2012 #129

I very seldom buy bread and there is no sugar in my house, only Splenda. RebelOne Oct 2012 #144

Obesity and CANCER..... a kennedy Oct 2012 #145

That's because cancer kills you when nothing else does. jeff47 Oct 2012 #208

And all the skinny people are living to age 90, right? WinkyDink Oct 2012 #246

Other factors can be at play Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #264

There's one other contributing factor Retrograde Oct 2012 #151

Grainfree ananda Oct 2012 #163

Stopped eating wheat, still as fat as ever. :( tjdee Oct 2012 #176

Organic Wheat, by definition, can't be genetically engineered wheat, can it? 99th_Monkey Oct 2012 #183

No it can't. wtmusic Oct 2012 #193

It can't be genetically engineered, but it can be a hybrid jeff47 Oct 2012 #209

I eat pizza. It makes me happy. Flying Squirrel Oct 2012 #201

Phys Ed was probably canceled because of high liability insurance.... WCGreen Oct 2012 #205

PE, where dropped, was to have more time to teach to the NCLB tests AND to cut staff. WinkyDink Oct 2012 #247

No, testing mania killed PE Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #259

Another quack with an MD after his name peddling a fad diet. Odin2005 Oct 2012 #214

+1,000,000,000,000 HuckleB Oct 2012 #220

Feed the wheat to Tribbles and see what happens to them. Recovered Repug Oct 2012 #217

That would depend on whether Kelvin Mace Oct 2012 #258

I'm slowly going back to how I ate about twenty years ago... Kurovski Oct 2012 #218

You forgot one JNelson6563 Oct 2012 #285