General Discussion

markpkessinger

(8,871 posts)

110. I'm with you, William...

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 05:05 PM

Oct 2012

... And I will share with you a point made to me the other day by a good friend. He pointed out something we all know: that these "debates" aren't really debates at all, but elaborate pieces of political theatre. They aren't even about swaying voters. Rather, they are about establishing allegiances. They are an opportunity for a candidate to light a fire under his or her base such that they will be inspired to get out of bed and vote come election day. Let's face it, on that score, at least, Romney scored big, and President Obama didn't.

I would qualify my friend's point in one respect. That is, there are a small number of voters who can and will be persuaded by how candidates perform in these theatrical exercises we have the conceit to call "debates." There is a certain portion of the electorate that will claim to support whichever candidate appears to have the upper hand. "Everybody loves a winner," as they say. Unfortunately, these "fair weather" voters can make a difference in a tight contest. So, whether we like it or not, when it comes to these debates, winning on style is just as important -- maybe even more so -- than winning on substance.

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I'm apparently a terrible, awful person. [View all] WilliamPitt Oct 2012 OP

You can wet your pants, but I'm biting my nails. sinkingfeeling Oct 2012 #1

Me too! abelenkpe Oct 2012 #83

What nails? peace frog Oct 2012 #107

Tooth grinder, here. Ship of Fools Oct 2012 #168

Nails are for wusses Janecita Oct 2012 #175

the unspeakable sin of posting anything that isn't good news. cali Oct 2012 #2

I once read about a CEO who said the most valuable person in his company Peregrine Took Oct 2012 #25

Fiction, I presume. GeorgeGist Oct 2012 #66

LOL! merrily Oct 2012 #162

***SNICKER*** Earth Bound Misfit Oct 2012 #176

or just really aching for attention as of late.... Joe the Revelator Oct 2012 #3

^^^ This ^^^ WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #5

How about making less posts about the plight of William Pitt.... Joe the Revelator Oct 2012 #68

It's interesting how "moderate Democrats" rely on personal attacks like yours MannyGoldstein Oct 2012 #118

Frankly, it's interesting that your schtick has lasted as long as it has. Joe the Revelator Oct 2012 #132

And what schtick would that be? MannyGoldstein Oct 2012 #135

Being a Democrat with the guts to face reality, is a 'schtick' now? How so? I thought sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #194

I noticed that about Republicans. merrily Oct 2012 #165

Self serving, hmm... davidthegnome Oct 2012 #185

Will...just ignore them Marrah_G Oct 2012 #153

+1 JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #179

you couldn't just settle this in the other thread, with the folks who bothered to respond to you? bigtree Oct 2012 #4

" with the floks who bothered to respomd to you" WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #6

the ridicule for a typo is just wrong, Will bigtree Oct 2012 #8

I legitimately didn't know what you were talking about. WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #12

carrying on an argument from another thread used to be something that was frowned on here bigtree Oct 2012 #18

What thread are you referring to? WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #26

ha! bigtree Oct 2012 #52

Seriously? WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #53

yep, seriously bigtree Oct 2012 #58

this one SemperEadem Oct 2012 #54

Your standards are brutal. WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #59

dont' act brand new SemperEadem Oct 2012 #102

1+ K Gardner Oct 2012 #49

At the risk of being eviscerated, this is a separate argument. renie408 Oct 2012 #105

It's a attention thing with the DoomSayers DisabledAmerican Oct 2012 #11

^^^ This ^^^ WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #15

You've figured all that out in 3 weeks? nt laundry_queen Oct 2012 #113

A careful observer wouldn't even need three days DemocratsForProgress Oct 2012 #125

Whatever you say. nt laundry_queen Oct 2012 #129

Of course I hadn't allowed for the possibility that DemocratsForProgress Oct 2012 #140

^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^ Joe the Revelator Oct 2012 #71

There they go again DisabledAmerican Oct 2012 #7

^^^ This ^^^ WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #9

Nope not this again truth of the matter DisabledAmerican Oct 2012 #17

Good Lord... WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #24

then why make another thread? DisabledAmerican Oct 2012 #32

I've read some very glowing remarks from you about the President, fwiw bigtree Oct 2012 #38

Not disagreeing with anything anyone says. Just pointing out all of us have something at risk. merrily Oct 2012 #166

Posters who don't share your opinions are welcome to express their thoughts on DU.... OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #22

It's annoying that they come after people for posting reality. MessiahRp Oct 2012 #86

Well said. russspeakeasy Oct 2012 #94

Thank you! peace frog Oct 2012 #111

Has Biden made many gaffes during debates? merrily Oct 2012 #167

What he said. renie408 Oct 2012 #115

Thank you, Messia. kurtzapril4 Oct 2012 #146

Yes...nt dougolat Oct 2012 #155

I did not 'watch' the debate proper, as I am too broke to afford the TV set coalition_unwilling Oct 2012 #187

A reality check is a *good* thing quinnox Oct 2012 #10

Exactly! nt Mojorabbit Oct 2012 #44

Right on peace frog Oct 2012 #112

+1 laundry_queen Oct 2012 #117

I'm right there with you Glitterati Oct 2012 #13

but thats precisely the problem. the debate performance Solomon Oct 2012 #97

How about we focus on making our focus on the arguments? HuckleB Oct 2012 #14

I'm glad I was your favorite alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #16

What post are you referring to? WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #19

Aw, man... alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #51

That was certainly an I-told-you-so-post. speedoo Oct 2012 #116

You are in good company Will. B2G Oct 2012 #20

If you think the sky is falling is a dose of reality then keep it DisabledAmerican Oct 2012 #21

People couldn't say enough nice things about the President BEFORE the debate.... OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #29

Which is why I can understand one night of it DisabledAmerican Oct 2012 #35

The President has a nice haircut TrogL Oct 2012 #41

Let's take a deep breath and not be hysterical. Gallup has some good WI_DEM Oct 2012 #23

Calling a rational post "hysterical" is, in itself, an example of hysteria. WinkyDink Oct 2012 #28

Oh brother it appears you didn't bother to read anything I wrote WI_DEM Oct 2012 #37

I'm thinking Obama is going to be fine in spite of all the doomsaying. Cleita Oct 2012 #27

ATTENTION ALL KMART SHOPPERS: cliffordu Oct 2012 #30

Thanks for the kick WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #39

I happen to be one that disagrees that the President fucked up. zeemike Oct 2012 #60

Thanks for "Kitten Laser Debate Tactic" dougolat Oct 2012 #157

The Greeks didn't like it when Cassandra told the truth either LondonReign2 Oct 2012 #31

Cassandra told the Greek truths they could act on alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #42

Cassandra was Trojan tama Oct 2012 #64

Well, no wonder they didn't listen to her. Fucking Trojans, I hate their kind. Bucky Oct 2012 #89

Why? tama Oct 2012 #95

I was talking about Bucky Oct 2012 #148

Away from me tama Oct 2012 #154

* Bucky Oct 2012 #197

Excatly :) tama Oct 2012 #198

The truth to be acted upon is that the President needs to change his approach both now and in the LondonReign2 Oct 2012 #67

No, Cassandra was cursed to prophesy the future but not be believed NoPasaran Oct 2012 #87

Cassandra-syndrom tama Oct 2012 #98

Yes, but her prophesies could be acted on alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #99

Could be, perhaps tama Oct 2012 #161

Will, I get what you are saying, and this race is a lot closer than I'd like to see right now. davsand Oct 2012 #33

It is a bad day for the polls today. hrmjustin Oct 2012 #34

They had an unenthusiastic, demoralized base. CrispyQ Oct 2012 #36

No you're not. It's not your fault that there are so many people in the ethersphere patrice Oct 2012 #40

People are anxious and acting out their frustrations on all sides. nt AtomicKitten Oct 2012 #43

Solidarity!, WilliamPitt. nt patrice Oct 2012 #45

Come on Will, you've been around here long enough to know hughee99 Oct 2012 #46

I support Obama 100%. I do think he made some good points in the debate. Unfortunately southernyankeebelle Oct 2012 #47

We also can't afford it. I just want to see the new strategy at work. Then I'll calm down. SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2012 #48

Pointing out isn't a crime but I think we all seem to be obsessing about it. LynneSin Oct 2012 #50

No, you're not. But here's the thing Blaukraut Oct 2012 #55

agree totally... the season's not over but we're down two games in the standings with three to play WestWisconsinDem Oct 2012 #56

Actually I think we're still up 2 games in the standings LondonReign2 Oct 2012 #70

You're Likable Enough DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2012 #57

Depends. (eom) chknltl Oct 2012 #61

I have never voted GOP in my life and probably never will. iandhr Oct 2012 #62

Delusional thinking is not pretty, especially when it's people on our side. dawg Oct 2012 #63

Internet drama is internet drama AngryAmish Oct 2012 #65

Well, zen. merrily Oct 2012 #169

Maybe what is so frustrating is that it is clear that this change from pre-debate Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #69

I agree with you 100%. mlevans Oct 2012 #72

I know for a fact if we see a repeat of 2004 Generic Other Oct 2012 #73

God yes. And that's why being realistic is more important right now than living in fantasyland MessiahRp Oct 2012 #90

Don't let the weak kneed nellies get your knickers in a twist. MissMarple Oct 2012 #74

The process of critical thinking is what seems to be a crime, these days... countryjake Oct 2012 #75

Closing your eyes, biting your tongure, and holding your nose, is required to prove your loyalty. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #76

Not at all... liberalmuse Oct 2012 #77

You couldn't be a "terrible, awful person" if you tried ailsagirl Oct 2012 #78

You of all people around here I expected a more reasoned and - dare I say it - "balanced"... truebrit71 Oct 2012 #79

Your last sentence could have been mine. LiberalAndProud Oct 2012 #195

Discussing the debate from a different perspective chowder66 Oct 2012 #80

JOIN THE CLUB.... Iggy Oct 2012 #81

Don't you get it? yodermon Oct 2012 #82

For what it's worth, I agree with everything you've said in this thread. BlueJazz Oct 2012 #84

My problem isn't with the.... one_voice Oct 2012 #85

Lighten up, Francis. Bucky Oct 2012 #88

perspective stklurker Oct 2012 #91

You are not a "terrible, awful person". You're William Pitt. David Zephyr Oct 2012 #92

What David Zephyr said ailsagirl Oct 2012 #106

Best post in the thread alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #109

Well said! derby378 Oct 2012 #199

My eyes are wide-open, but there's a sizeable group here who can't process bad news DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2012 #93

Everybody knows it was bad... WI_DEM Oct 2012 #96

That's not really true ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2012 #134

Whining doesn't help K8-EEE Oct 2012 #100

+1000 I think the downers should do so to their family in the outside world, not on a public board graham4anything Oct 2012 #103

Many of us are considered trolls now Oilwellian Oct 2012 #101

You got that right. The thing is: We used to be called ''Democrat'' for what we believe in. Octafish Oct 2012 #104

Octafish, you are a master Oilwellian Oct 2012 #150

+1. strange days indeed. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #159

Re: Being a Democrat "for what we believe in" versus party label: woo me with science Oct 2012 #193

+10000 renie408 Oct 2012 #108

(((hug))) WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #136

Hugs back at ya! Oh, and... Oilwellian Oct 2012 #149

Yup. This McCarthyistic garbage is a despicable tactic. woo me with science Oct 2012 #192

I'm with you, William... markpkessinger Oct 2012 #110

Been there, Will. I can relate... ClusterFreak Oct 2012 #114

You might want to get some Depends. We've still got four weeks to go. HopeHoops Oct 2012 #119

whatever, Mr. Pitt. Whisp Oct 2012 #120

I dunno, Bill, most polls I've seen recently say that Obama's still ahead...... AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #121

Mr. Pitt, I think you are just telling it like it is. Denninmi Oct 2012 #122

I disagree with you but appreciate your posting. The debates and the election rhett o rick Oct 2012 #123

Hear, hear, Will! woo me with science Oct 2012 #124

Time to pledge your allegiance to the cakewalk theory of reelection. hay rick Oct 2012 #126

I can only laugh at the premise that is "Will Pitt is a troll" flvegan Oct 2012 #127

There's a little troll inside all of us tama Oct 2012 #186

That's the Spirit! Ghost Dog Oct 2012 #190

Yeah but what else is new. wtmusic Oct 2012 #128

I watched the live feeds al-Jazeera was broadcasting Ghost Dog Oct 2012 #130

I think you are on to something. I think his remarks, especially, 4 years from now we will not be demgrrrll Oct 2012 #158

Distracted by a conference call about Syria-Turkey?..nt dougolat Oct 2012 #160

There is an "Obama must stop being Obama" aspect to this that bothers me. McCamy Taylor Oct 2012 #131

I respectfully disagree. kurtzapril4 Oct 2012 #147

word up frylock Oct 2012 #133

Reality can be a motherfucker. But I'd rather have it than make-believe. Taverner Oct 2012 #137

Feeling a bit queasy and 'wetting my pants', also. madmax Oct 2012 #138

It's important that we recognize our faults. JNelson6563 Oct 2012 #139

You could take action and register people to vote, or get on the phone banks. Zalatix Oct 2012 #141

I want my party back too upi402 Oct 2012 #142

It's odd here lately. H2O Man Oct 2012 #143

Thank you, old friend. WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #145

I have always respected your opinion Generic Brad Oct 2012 #144

I'm with you. AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #151

were you actually surprised by the reaction? ibegurpard Oct 2012 #152

Bookmarking JHB Oct 2012 #156

In Will Veritas. VOX Oct 2012 #163

Some days I swear some people just got beamed here and missed the 2004 election. GreenPartyVoter Oct 2012 #164

We still have people claiming the debate was a secret victory and that geek tragedy Oct 2012 #170

I felt obliged to delete an OP the other day, I was called all sorts of names, I have never secondwind Oct 2012 #171

I'm sorry that happened to you Oilwellian Oct 2012 #184

I too experienced that. I am 67 year old, lifelong democrat, onecent Oct 2012 #196

On the bright side, soon the media will move on to the Biden-Ryan debate. merrily Oct 2012 #172

For whatever the reason, Obama,,,, SmittynMo Oct 2012 #173

The MSM is a very cruel joke on this nation Pakid Oct 2012 #174

We wish they were a joke Doctor_J Oct 2012 #180

Rec'ing the OP AND these daggers fired at Will Doctor_J Oct 2012 #177

"I'm apparently a terrible, awful person." blackspade Oct 2012 #178

WP JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #181

No, I think you are a realist. Safetykitten Oct 2012 #182

Here's my take on the debate... Flatulo Oct 2012 #183

You're not so terrible davidthegnome Oct 2012 #188

Face It WilliamPitt otohara Oct 2012 #189

I think you should know, William. LiberalAndProud Oct 2012 #191