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Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)

9. That makes him no different from almost all his contemporaries.

Wed Feb 3, 2021, 03:39 PM

Feb 2021

I understand that this would not be acceptable today, but I hardly see any point in condemning somebody from the past for conforming to the social norms of his time.

Suppose that 50 years from now, perhaps due to global shortages of agricultural land, everyone has become vegans. Does this give those future vegans license to condemn us carnivores of today?

Suppose that 25 years from now nearly everyone drives electric vehicles, and it becomes considered socially irresponsible to drive a fossil fuel powered vehicle. Those in the future are right to condemn their contemporaries in the future. But they do not have license to condemn we who live in their past and who still drive internal combustion vehicles.

Today you may judge me by today's standards. In a hundred years you have no right look back and judge me by the standards of 100 years from now. It's just not right.

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Yikes.....I did not know this about Tolkien [View all] Nevilledog Feb 2021 OP

Not good. Karadeniz Feb 2021 #1

Yeah. Not his finest hour. Aristus Feb 2021 #2

+100000000000000000000000000000000 x 2 AmyStrange Feb 2021 #10

Attributing 'good' traits to a race is still racism. aidbo Feb 2021 #21

I know. Aristus Feb 2021 #22

In other words, a hobbit at heart Hekate Feb 2021 #49

This article in the Forward discusses this too. Very interesting. Mike 03 Feb 2021 #24

Everyone we admire is complex BannonsLiver Feb 2021 #31

I agree. Aristus Feb 2021 #33

It appears JK Rowling did the same thing. ananda Feb 2021 #3

I kind I have the same problem she has... AmyStrange Feb 2021 #18

Aside from her transphobia, which is awful Withywindle Feb 2021 #41

Possibly the most over-rated writer ever. Volumes of dreck. oioioi Feb 2021 #4

Your opinion. Mine is Tolkien was a brilliant writer and student of language. Tommymac Feb 2021 #27

The Harvard Lampoon parody "Bored of the Rings" is funny LastDemocratInSC Feb 2021 #35

I read that in the early/mid 70's ornotna Feb 2021 #38

It may have been too short or too long or just right. LastDemocratInSC Feb 2021 #44

Damn 😳 live love laugh Feb 2021 #5

Woah... Not good at all! electric_blue68 Feb 2021 #6

Roald Dahl too torius Feb 2021 #7

Watched the new version of "Witches" recently and it got me thinking how anti-semitic the original sweetloukillbot Feb 2021 #11

I remember how mortified and heartbroken I was to find out Mike 03 Feb 2021 #17

H.L. Mencken too apparently Mike 03 Feb 2021 #26

I mean Ezra Pound was on a bit of a different level--he was on the wrong side in WWII and wound up fishwax Feb 2021 #32

If one is very charitable, Hav Feb 2021 #8

The way Tolkien is quoted above, it seems clear he viewed his Dwarves to be inaccurate portrayal Nitram Feb 2021 #40

That makes him no different from almost all his contemporaries. Binkie The Clown Feb 2021 #9

Do you have any proof HIS view of Jews was normal then? Any data? thx in advance uponit7771 Feb 2021 #16

I was there. Read books from the era. Watch movies from the era. Educate yourself. nt Binkie The Clown Feb 2021 #19

I have, I know people I didn't live in that era in the US but the people I know who did ... uponit7771 Feb 2021 #34

It is never okay to embody racist stereotypes in one's fiction. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2021 #20

+1 n/t Laelth Feb 2021 #28

Note the year. 1964. Behind the Aegis Feb 2021 #12

Yep, Tolkien was a product of his (racist) times. aidbo Feb 2021 #13

FWIW, here's an interesting article from "The Forward", a Jewish-American organization Mike 03 Feb 2021 #14

My great aunt worked as Tolkein's writing assistant when she studied at Oxford. GumboYaYa Feb 2021 #15

If something is a good read, funny, or fun to sing to... AmyStrange Feb 2021 #23

When Tolkien was publishing the Lord of the Rings, he was contacted by the Third Reich haele Feb 2021 #25

What you said. All of it. Hekate Feb 2021 #48

Comparing Societal norms of 80 years ago is not fair. Tommymac Feb 2021 #29

Please don't conflate misanthrope Feb 2021 #30

No, Mark Twain would not by any measure be considered racist today. His novels included dialog Nitram Feb 2021 #37

Twain wrote satire. Tolkien did not LanternWaste Feb 2021 #42

Uhm, you should read Mark Twain. N/t Humanist_Activist Feb 2021 #43

Nope, Twain was far ahead of his time. I would bet he would support black lives matter today JI7 Feb 2021 #46

There has always been a strong strain of anti-semitism on England. I've run into Brits who were Nitram Feb 2021 #36

Tolkien in response to his German publisher in the 1930's.... Happy Hoosier Feb 2021 #39

Product of the time...doesn't excuse it, however... Xolodno Feb 2021 #45

So what? MicaelS Feb 2021 #47