General Discussion

gulliver

(13,985 posts)

69. This whole dynamic (H1-B, L-1, illegal immigration) could be changing.

Reply to Snake Alchemist (Original post)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 09:37 PM

Jan 2012

Jobs now flow to where the people are, so maybe we want the people here instead of "there." I'm in IT, and I have been against H1-B and L-1 visas. But outsourcing changes the equation. Even H1-Bs and L-1s have to compete against outsourcing, for example.

A main reason H1-B, L-1, and "illegals" take less pay is that they are insecure in their citizenship path. If they were given a solid path to citizenship, the vast majority would take it. And they wouldn't be beholden to, let's say, "bargain hunters" who take advantage of their immigration status to shortchange them in wages. Somebody in IT who knows they can stay, easily change jobs, etc., is going to want more money.

Also, they would have to buy real estate, shop for goods, buy services, etc., right here in the good old USA. That's not to mention Social Security contributions, political power impacts, etc.

I don't know. It doesn't seem so obvious to me any more. I also understand from conversation with Indian IT workers that wages are on the rise in India as well--big time...so. The USA might be better off brain- and skill-draining our competitors. Bring all their good players over here.

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Which is worse: H1B Visa Holders or Illegal Immigrants. [View all] Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 OP

It is all over this website. joeglow3 Jan 2012 #1

I'm against any practice that drives down wages. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #2

Aye, there's the rub. The issue in a nutshell Populist_Prole Jan 2012 #38

IOW, white collar workers bashing blue collar workers? Zalatix Jan 2012 #76

+1 got it in one. Vincardog Jan 2012 #61

I've noticed it too.. Fumesucker Jan 2012 #3

All jobs takes smarts as you put it madokie Jan 2012 #12

Both are bad Confusious Jan 2012 #4

YES. The whole idea of immigrants coming to America is simply appalling. Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #5

Try reading and understanding the words Confusious Jan 2012 #9

Don't worry with those who intentionally conflate illegal immigration with immigration. Lance_Boyle Jan 2012 #31

Here's my simplistic approach (answer) to the immigration issue... mrmpa Jan 2012 #59

And there needs to be a robust agency that does daily checkups on work sites. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #62

Nothing wrong with H1B visa holders, just looking for work JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2012 #6

How many H1B visa should be allowed? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #11

To be practical, freeze the number at current level JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2012 #21

And freeze the #'s of illegal immigrants at the current level as well? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #23

No more difficult than freezing the current level of JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2012 #27

no, I haven't noticed this attitude a bit maggiesfarmer Jan 2012 #7

I have a problem with employers who hire either over US citizens. w8liftinglady Jan 2012 #8

+1000 Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #15

Canada promotes the immigration of highly skilled and educated people rather than the unskilled. pampango Jan 2012 #10

Seems Canada could teach us a thing or two. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #13

meaning native born Canadians are becoming an underclass in their own country. provis99 Jan 2012 #63

You'll have to let them know this. Polls show they are very supportive of high immigration levels. pampango Jan 2012 #64

I don't hate either. Iggo Jan 2012 #14

Employers drive down wages for profit. Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #16

And workers buy cheaper products to maximize their purchasing power. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #17

"I doubt the profit motive is going away any time soon" Starry Messenger Jan 2012 #18

yes, there is a disconnect when discussing legal vs. illegal immigration WilmywoodNCparalegal Jan 2012 #19

Sounds like you have good first hand knowledge which you can impart. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #20

I wish I could rec this reply sharp_stick Jan 2012 #22

It's not just attitude, it's policy. PETRUS Jan 2012 #24

So if you can get here by plane, boat or paddle then you become a citizen? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #25

It's complicated. PETRUS Jan 2012 #57

Those are some good points. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #58

Great suggestion. Works well in Europe but runs counter to the idea that pampango Jan 2012 #26

Do Europeans allow Africans and Asians to come and work freely in Europe? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #28

No, just their immediate neighbors on the continent (30 countries now). pampango Jan 2012 #32

Isn't the 50 states still much larger than the EU? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #33

The EU is 500 million people. You're right it would have to be a two-way street with pampango Jan 2012 #34

Per the article Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #35

Sarkozy's Conservative Party it taking a hard line on immigration. In part that is politics to fend pampango Jan 2012 #43

So that is a winning issue? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #47

They perceive to be a winning issue with conservative voters which is who they need to pampango Jan 2012 #50

I think this is not true! GermanDem Jan 2012 #29

There are a lot of computer programmers and engineers out of work in the US. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #30

No. GermanDem Jan 2012 #36

So you don't think that citizens should have a built-in advantage? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #37

No. GermanDem Jan 2012 #39

So you would be against affirmative action of any kind? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #40

Honestly, yes. GermanDem Jan 2012 #48

Would Germany allow American high tech workers to come in en masse if there was Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #54

It's true. Companies are coached on how to 'game the system' and lie. Edweird Jan 2012 #66

The worst thing is the "blame the workers" attitude... countryjake Jan 2012 #41

Yes, I have noticed it. There are some elitist jerks here that love to heap scorn Edweird Jan 2012 #42

I believe the correct term is "ivory tower" liberal elitists. pampango Jan 2012 #45

Doesn't the EU have pretty strict rules on who can join Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #46

Very strict. It takes years of negotiation for new members to satisfy existing members. pampango Jan 2012 #49

Well that in itself is it's own immigration policy. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #51

Agreed. And a good one, IMHO. n/t pampango Jan 2012 #52

It's amusing how you cling to your dishonest comparison. Edweird Jan 2012 #56

Comparing Europe and the US is dishonest? Is the US so different (exceptional) that pampango Jan 2012 #60

Same old race to the bottom garbage. It's all completely dishonest. Edweird Jan 2012 #65

I agree that the EU is a (liberal) attempt to create a European version of the US. pampango Jan 2012 #67

That's a fallacious argument Confusious Jan 2012 #74

Three points. 1. At the same time progressive Europeans were building their progressive societies pampango Jan 2012 #78

1.Movement between countries Confusious Jan 2012 #80

Both H1B Visa holders and Illegal immigrants tend to drive down hedgehog Jan 2012 #44

I'm not angry at either group but at the selfish employers who Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #53

Doesn't that also apply to consumers who look for the best bargain Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #55

But it's a vicious circle Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #71

If HB-1 visas went to the best and brightest in the world... dkf Jan 2012 #68

This whole dynamic (H1-B, L-1, illegal immigration) could be changing. gulliver Jan 2012 #69

Not really. MH1 Jan 2012 #70

This message was self-deleted by its author Obamanaut Jan 2012 #72

yes, i have La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #73

H-1Bs are legally here treestar Jan 2012 #75

easy answer.... by and large American youth are too fucking lazy NightTemplar Jan 2012 #77

Of course. It's classism. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #79

Message auto-removed year of the cat Feb 2013 #81