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thucythucy

(9,043 posts)
48. A third alternative not mentioned in your first paragraph is
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 01:15 PM
Feb 2021

that they might leave the GOP to form another political party, the way liberal Whigs left to form the Republican Party in the 1850s. This certainly seems to be what's happening now, at least on the national level. I think a lot will depend on the success or failure of the new Biden administration.

And yeah, sometimes some taxes can be too high, but that hasn't been true of federal income taxes as an aggregate since the 1950s, if then. As it is the tax burden has shifted downward, off the top brackets and down into the middle class, especially when you consider how Social Security payroll tax is capped and the tax on capitol gains has been so drastically lowered. Property taxes throughout much of the country remain too high, but that's mainly because it's the primary way we finance public education. Shifting that funding into, say, a state wide general income tax fund would go a long away to solving generational poverty. In western Europe even the poorest children have a chance at a decent education, since the money is split more or less evenly between localities. Here, if you live in a poor neighborhood chances are good your kids will go to a poor school, which in so many cases means that familial poverty will continue on into the future.

I find most conservative critiques of liberal policies to be unconvincing. There's nothing magical about the private sector, especially when unregulated. Private prisons, charter schools, mercenary outfits like Black Water, none of them impress me as being notably more effective than government run prisons, public schools, or the regular US military. In fact, quite the opposite. Private efforts at space flight are still mostly tentative, a half century after government run NASA put men on the moon. The Jules Verne notion of private enterprise funding interplanetary space exploration is still science fiction.

The most convincing argument for an opposing party is to try to keep corruption in check. But this hardly seems to be a priority among current Republicans, or even current conservatives. We've just lived through four years of what is arguably the most corrupt administration in American history, certainly the most corrupt since Harding. I haven't seen much evidence of conservatives caring much about any of it.

By contrast, Senator Harry Truman's claim to national fame was his bulldog investigations into corruption at the War Dept. during FDR's third term. Unlike the current Republican Party, which is now censuring anyone breaking ranks even after an actual, literal, bona fide attempt to overthrow the Republic, Democrats in 1944 "punished" Truman by giving him the Vice Presidential nomination. Look at the difference between how Democrats responded to Senator Franken's alleged misdeeds, and Jim Jordan's ignoring the sexual abuse of young men he was coaching at Ohio State. One doesn't need to be in an opposing party to fight corruption. One merely needs to have a moral compass.

I honestly didn't see Democrats abandoning their oversight responsibility during the first two years of the Obama administration, did you? Nor during the first two years of Clinton, or four years of Carter. In fact, the most vociferous opposition to LBJ--if you want to go back even farther--was from Democrats like McGovern and RFK.

The need for an opposition party to fight corruption seems to be salient only when Republicans hold power, at least on the national level. Honestly, I don't see any real argument for the continuation of a national conservative party, aside from, as you say, giving conservatives a chance to rant and feel listened to. Which they have ample opportunities to do, given their control of so much media and their grip on much of mainstream religion. To give them such a huge voice in national politics seems not only unfair to the rest of us, but actually dangerous to the continuation of our small d democracy.

But then I of course could be wrong about all of this.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

To be a fully functioning democracy we need a rational opposition party. nycbos Feb 2021 #1
When in our lifetimes has it been a rational opposition party? Irish_Dem Feb 2021 #2
For a good bit of my life. GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #11
Not for my lifetime. Irish_Dem Feb 2021 #12
Your reply rebuts your premise. Nixon only resigned because republicans told him they would impeach GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #15
Nixon didn't "only" resign because Goldwater asked him to. thucythucy Feb 2021 #18
Today that would not matter to republicans. GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #21
Yeah, it's a mite chilly tonight! thucythucy Feb 2021 #23
Hell, you did not stomp on me! I can take and give! GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #25
Best to you too. thucythucy Feb 2021 #26
Support the rule of law? JonLP24 Feb 2021 #22
Good god, I'm not defending today's republicans. Nor necessarily the Lincoln Project republicans. GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #32
That has (mostly) been my experience as well. KentuckyWoman Feb 2021 #30
Oh, I'm not arguing that any of their leaders a worth a bucket of spit GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #33
Why I_UndergroundPanther Feb 2021 #3
Indeed. nycbos Feb 2021 #8
Wish we could shut out the republicans in Texas! LeftInTX Feb 2021 #53
That's not what the founding fathers thought. thucythucy Feb 2021 #9
I agree. But they unintentionally created a system of government that requires them. GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #13
We either have two parties that agree with the basic underlying premises Crunchy Frog Feb 2021 #4
this TeamPooka Feb 2021 #7
Exactly. thucythucy Feb 2021 #10
Exactly! TomSlick Feb 2021 #14
Bingo. There will always be a Conservative party. GulfCoast66 Feb 2021 #16
Yep, they aren't going away LeftInTX Feb 2021 #52
We need 2 honest parties. bamagal62 Feb 2021 #5
Yes. Citizens United needs to be overturned and expunged. nt Hekate Feb 2021 #27
It's been hella better in Cali... tonedevil Feb 2021 #6
A conservative party in the tradition of Edmund Burke would be a worthy rival. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2021 #17
Might as well ask why we need representative government Hortensis Feb 2021 #19
I don't agree it's the same thing at all. thucythucy Feb 2021 #37
You posted about any conservative party at all. Conservatism Hortensis Feb 2021 #39
I'm always skeptical about arguments that say certain political behaviors thucythucy Feb 2021 #41
There's no absolute determinism, and I'm surprised you found Hortensis Feb 2021 #46
Well, you did say thucythucy Feb 2021 #47
Yup. Just occurred to me that the third wife's despicable Hortensis Feb 2021 #49
The RePutinicans would LOVE to have a one party country. NoMoreRepugs Feb 2021 #20
A one-party country will crumble because of the "absolute power" axiom... Hekate Feb 2021 #24
There are plenty of people here who would be just fine with absolute power in perpetuity. BannonsLiver Feb 2021 #29
Exactly so Hekate Feb 2021 #31
Not "perpetuity" thucythucy Feb 2021 #42
I think the point is a sane opposition BannonsLiver Feb 2021 #28
It will be tough thucythucy Feb 2021 #43
I'm not sure I made myself clear BannonsLiver Feb 2021 #55
Yes. Why does that opposition party NEED to be the GQP? Does it NEED to be conservative even? ck4829 Feb 2021 #34
Because no one votes for them? LeftInTX Feb 2021 #54
How do we fix this? ck4829 Feb 2021 #58
Maher made a compelling argument on his show tonight Hamlette Feb 2021 #35
Arguing by anecdote generally doesn't do it for me. thucythucy Feb 2021 #44
Because a positive feedback loop is self-destructive. See, e.g., GQP. Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2021 #36
And why would the demise of a national conservative party-- thucythucy Feb 2021 #45
Close to a third of the country are conservatives Azathoth Feb 2021 #38
A third alternative not mentioned in your first paragraph is thucythucy Feb 2021 #48
... Azathoth Feb 2021 #57
I'm OK with "convervative" as defined in English, not Republicanese DFW Feb 2021 #40
The basic flaw in your argument can be seen in the examples you cite. thucythucy Feb 2021 #50
Just because the Nina Turners of this world have not been given the free rein that Trump has DFW Feb 2021 #51
Nina Turner? JonLP24 Feb 2021 #56
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