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woo me with science

(32,139 posts)

48. Great points in the OP and here.

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 10:35 PM

Jan 2012

The knee-jerk defensiveness we are seeing from many here about Ron Paul's stances on the surveillance state and the wars is a real shame and a tremendous lost opportunity for Democrats.

You are exactly right that he could be used as a great tool to help get our party back on track. He is opening a door to discussion of our American empire and the sheer malignancy of our anti-terrorism policies. Rather than use this conversation as a way to reaffirm our party's traditional core ideals and demonstrate their superiority to conservatism AND libertarianism, many seem hell-bent on digging in their heels and defending the status quo out of a sheer terror of acknowledging that Paul may have a point on ANY issue.

It is a damned shame, because all it does is drive home to people that they can expect more of the same from Democrats.

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Obama vs Ron Paul : both hold positions anathema to liberals. [View all] merkins Jan 2012 OP

Oh ProSense Jan 2012 #1

It's not about Ron Paul's "liberal priorities", it's about liberal/progressives "liberal priorities" MrCoffee Jan 2012 #5

This ProSense Jan 2012 #8

OK then MrCoffee Jan 2012 #11

Only everything Ron Paul represents is anathema to liberals frazzled Jan 2012 #2

Virtual Rec. Wait Wut Jan 2012 #4

That is untrue. MNBrewer Jan 2012 #17

Note that Paul and the President share an opposition to marriage equalty. Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #25

"end poverty" and "stop wars" are at least as magical as the words hfojvt Jan 2012 #61

I agree with your first sentence, but disagree with comparing Edwards to Paul LeftishBrit Jan 2012 #69

First, I was not comparing the two of them--but rather frazzled Jan 2012 #72

Fuck Ron Paul and anybody who promotes him. DevonRex Jan 2012 #3

Please take the time to actually read the article MrCoffee Jan 2012 #7

Thing is, I DO get the point. And if the first words out DevonRex Jan 2012 #12

I think our wars are racist, vile, mysogynist and homophobic. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #13

I could not have agreed more cpwm17 Jan 2012 #19

I remember when the War in Iraq was in its beginning stages. I believe that was when it struck me sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #26

Yes, he is all these latter things - and also he is a right-libertarian! LeftishBrit Jan 2012 #70

Just like you're wrong if the first word out of your mouth after saying Barack Obama MNBrewer Jan 2012 #18

Well-reasoned, cogent, thoughtful response. TransitJohn Jan 2012 #60

Under Libertariansim your freedoms get taken away ... dawg Jan 2012 #6

That's so true cpwm17 Jan 2012 #20

It's being done now by corporations, they're just using the government as the middle man. I Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #28

I think Romney and Obama's dots should be overlapping and that Obama is a lot ddeclue Jan 2012 #33

that chart is depressing justabob Jan 2012 #67

Corporations are running this government right now. I don't know that it is Libertarianism, but sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #35

The government still does lots of things that he doesn't think it should do. dawg Jan 2012 #51

He is never going to be president, so I don't understand your point at all. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #55

Our best hope is to start looking for someone who will better represent us in 2016. dawg Jan 2012 #56

I think we should stop saying libertarians take "correct" positions for "crazy reasons". Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #62

What I mean is that even when they do agree with us on an issue, it's for ... dawg Jan 2012 #65

Another progressive writer under the bus! sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #9

Actually, ProSense Jan 2012 #10

I'm sure Sirota knows more than anyone here about Paul. Paul is not the point. The point is sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #29

Sirota makes a most astute observation re: the election of a President and not a government. Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #14

What a load of codswallop... Spazito Jan 2012 #15

1. That was the point in Sirota's column about electing a President vs a Government. Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #21

I didn't miss it at all... Spazito Jan 2012 #27

Paul is the only one openly advocating for legalization so if you agree with that, De Facto, Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #30

LOL, No, I don't have to agree with Paul... Spazito Jan 2012 #31

Great point re: what/why. great white snark Jan 2012 #34

Thanks for the support, great white snark... Spazito Jan 2012 #36

Of course he sees, we all see. What you are missing is that it doesn't matter. What matters is that sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #37

It DOES matter... Spazito Jan 2012 #38

The 'why of it'. Okay, Paul is saying all the right things for all the wrong reasons. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #40

It would be more accurate to say the Democrats on the National Stage are... Spazito Jan 2012 #46

A majority of Americans on all national polls are opposed to Corporate bailouts. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #58

So, forget Paul. Where is the Democrat who supports your opposition to the Drug War? sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #45

Congressman Steve Cohen, for one... Spazito Jan 2012 #47

Excellent, I never heard him talking about the Drug War before. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #57

That's because the corporate media has little or no interest in broadcasting serious opposition Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #76

It's the media's fault? Spazito Jan 2012 #81

Absolutely kudos to Congressman Cohen, but my point regarding the corporate media is legitimate. Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #84

The media is appalling, you will get NO argument from me in that regard... Spazito Jan 2012 #86

Nicely put. Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #63

My point is you don't have to agree with the why, not if Obama gets out in front of the what; which Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #73

And my point is YES you do have to agree to the "why" if you are supporting the "what"... Spazito Jan 2012 #75

No you don't because by getting out in front of the what, you have more power to dictate the why. Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #77

It seems I need to try and be more succinct... Spazito Jan 2012 #79

If you supported freedom for the slaves, I doubt many people asked the why as well? Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #80

LOL, better late than never re asking me the question... Spazito Jan 2012 #82

Great, in that case you support the what; legalization of cannabis, now the issue becomes how do we Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #85

LOL, it seems we agree on much, disagree in... Spazito Jan 2012 #87

Peace to you, Spazito. Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #88

Peace to you as well, Uncle Joe... Spazito Jan 2012 #89

Libertarianism is a fantasy (and a nightmare) cpwm17 Jan 2012 #24

Thoughtful post, Uncle Joe, thank you! sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #16

Thanks for the thanks, sabrina. Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #23

Great points in the OP and here. woo me with science Jan 2012 #48

Well, I keep seeing attacks on writers and on Paul and some of them may even have points to make sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #53

Why aren't you avoiding topics re endless wars, surveillance, police power, bank bailouts, AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #22

Thank you. But actually, you don't even need a list of topics. woo me with science Jan 2012 #42

Neither is actually a progressive... ddeclue Jan 2012 #32

"Welcome to LibertarianUnderground" Son of Gob Jan 2012 #39

Can you elaborate on that? Is it not Liberal to oppose Corporate corruption? sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #44

What's sad is that you don't care about the reasons a Libertarian/Republican is doing so Son of Gob Jan 2012 #50

What's really sad is that you still have not shown me a Democrat on the national stage who sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #52

that is my dream 2012 mashup mdmc Jan 2012 #41

Ron Paul is already moving his anti-war message to the center. It's a joke. joshcryer Jan 2012 #43

If a woman's right to choose isn't a civil liberty JerseygirlCT Jan 2012 #49

He is not going to be president, so as a woman, he poses no threat to me. But the war machine sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #54

Well, I think we're seeing JerseygirlCT Jan 2012 #91

"and ties to racist newsletters" Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #59

Ron Paul is not a progressive. Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #64

Great post! LeftishBrit Jan 2012 #66

Firstly... LeftishBrit Jan 2012 #68

Sirota sucks....from a DU'er in CO Demonaut Jan 2012 #71

Neither of them are progressives. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #74

Paul has more positions favored by progressives ozone_man Jan 2012 #78

the path to a thing is as important as the thing itself. LanternWaste Jan 2012 #83

DU rec for Sirota. bvar22 Jan 2012 #90