General Discussion

PatrickforO

(15,327 posts)

125. I don't think this is a 'cave' at all. Not a bit. I think the Democrats are playing hardball.

Sat Feb 13, 2021, 03:02 PM

Feb 2021

This is a cut and dried case. Trump is clearly guilty as sin. They have now added new evidence to the official record that even further strengthens an already rock-solid case.

They know that this isn't just a trial in the Senate - Trump will probably be acquitted. We all know this.

But it is ALSO a trial before the American people, and by introducing this evidence, they are looking ahead to the midterm elections, where this is sure to be used by Democratic candidates at the local, state and federal levels. These are talking points every single candidate can pound on - the Republicans are the party of sedition, of - dare we say - treason.

They do not represent democracy but dictatorship. They are the anti-democracy party.

No, you're right Starfish. This whole thing could not have gone much better for our party.

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PLEASE CALM DOWN! Raskin's move was absolutely perfect. This was a win [View all] StarfishSaver Feb 2021 OP

Bottom Line Is Now Or In 2 Weeks, No Additional Votes Will Be Gained sfstaxprep Feb 2021 #1

And got Trump to admit something - and showed McCarthy to be a craven liar at the same time StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #3

The Whole Fucking Country Is A Scam And A Joke sfstaxprep Feb 2021 #7

My sentiments exactly nt LSparkle Feb 2021 #14

We control Turin_C3PO Feb 2021 #16

Yes, that is all of it, "Democracy is messy and always close to extinction" Stuart G Feb 2021 #25

I concur. Also, there is always some faction that finds Democracy inconvenient for their agenda. dameatball Feb 2021 #64

I disagree angrychair Feb 2021 #110

I'm not sure we are disagreeing actually. I am saying that I don't blame "Democracy" for the things dameatball Feb 2021 #118

No, democracy isn't the issue at all angrychair Feb 2021 #154

Yep, thought so. Just wanted to clarify. Thanks. dameatball Feb 2021 #166

Agree bcbink Feb 2021 #147

What exactly does strong look like? soldierant Feb 2021 #179

Thank you for that comment! Dyedinthewoolliberal Feb 2021 #89

+1 nt Javaman Feb 2021 #17

You think Herrera Butler testifying live in two or three weeks would have saved our Democracy? StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #18

I fear you are correct. triron Feb 2021 #105

That's about where I'm at right now. Evolve Dammit Feb 2021 #137

Agreed. Major evil won today mdbl Feb 2021 #144

+1000 nt Javaman Feb 2021 #174

Tie Every Republican Senator To This COL Mustard Feb 2021 #35

Just like the last times? Bmoboy Feb 2021 #50

My list... mjvpi Feb 2021 #134

A good list nonetheless. And yes, it is. Evolve Dammit Feb 2021 #138

That's my opinion as well. yardwork Feb 2021 #80

we'll never know. barbtries Feb 2021 #96

But it's so much worse now onlyadream Feb 2021 #120

at some point, somehow, barbtries Feb 2021 #122

I'm hoping they bring back, and revamp the fairness doctrine onlyadream Feb 2021 #123

That doesn't work because these fascist aren't paying a heavy price rockfordfile Feb 2021 #183

Exactly! Evolve Dammit Feb 2021 #139

Watergate is a good example. The 'buzz' snowballed out on the street as hearings went on and on. Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2021 #143

there were weeks of hearings which were broadcast live yellowdogintexas Feb 2021 #156

Also, there was no pandemic forcing people to stay in, so they tuned in after work, on hearsay. Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2021 #157

exactly. barbtries Feb 2021 #158

Watergate went on for more than 2 years before Nixon resigned DonaldsRump Feb 2021 #184

move on? barbtries Feb 2021 #193

Because the impeachment vote was "rigged"? IggleDuer Feb 2021 #107

He forced the Republicans to stick their wattled necks out farther Warpy Feb 2021 #111

Why?? bcbink Feb 2021 #145

Exactly... appmanga Feb 2021 #180

Thank you Tree-Hugger Feb 2021 #2

Seriously well done. blm Feb 2021 #4

Very well stated. MontanaMama Feb 2021 #5

In this business you got to have finesse.-paraphrasing the movie-Chinatown Walleye Feb 2021 #6

don't you get tired of having to repeat this CatWoman Feb 2021 #8

THIS malaise Feb 2021 #13

It does get tiresome StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #23

Lol. No kidding. There's good reason though. All of this really was a surprise to KPN Feb 2021 #30

No, no, no. That is not good enough. Please explain why they called for witnesses, THEN... servermsh Feb 2021 #40

The point of calling a witness - the ONLY point - is to get their testimony into the record StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #49

I missed the part about T essentially admitting everything was true? Amaryllis Feb 2021 #68

By not objecting to the admission of the comments and not offering any evidence countering them StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #71

Publicly heard is necessary bcbink Feb 2021 #148

all I know is I woke up to the news that Trump conceded that the conversation with McCarthy CatWoman Feb 2021 #57

Omg. How rude Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2021 #45

well, that's me in a nutshell CatWoman Feb 2021 #61

LoL.. good one:) Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2021 #108

I think we have great Managers. I didn't like it at first.. mvd Feb 2021 #9

if managers had their way we'd have real witnesses bigtree Feb 2021 #24

I mean listening to the closing argument, the Managers couldn't do better mvd Feb 2021 #31

The managers get the last word on all they do. No leadership through this whole thing. THIS, ancianita Feb 2021 #55

it was the House managers who brought the proposal for witnesses bigtree Feb 2021 #90

House managers were ancianita Feb 2021 #136

it's moot bigtree Feb 2021 #94

Thank you for this. niyad Feb 2021 #10

The Repuke party is hours away from breakup. roamer65 Feb 2021 #11

Very bdamomma Feb 2021 #173

His closing statement (?) is fabulously well done. Nt spooky3 Feb 2021 #12

The goal is publicity, not establishing facts. coti Feb 2021 #15

Actually, that's not the goal StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #27

What, a conviction? Does that "stipulation" get us more conviction votes? coti Feb 2021 #34

Testimony wasn't going to get any more votes, either. StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #69

Sad but true. 😢 ShazzieB Feb 2021 #168

True, but I must admit, publicity helps. If it weren't for the need to get moving on our KPN Feb 2021 #39

Oh, we'll get publicity. paleotn Feb 2021 #121

Yes Yes Yes bcbink Feb 2021 #150

The Republicans would likely make it a witness shit show. liberalmuse Feb 2021 #19

You realize Democrats could have voted down particular witnesses, right? servermsh Feb 2021 #32

No argument. liberalmuse Feb 2021 #51

acquittal isn't a win bigtree Feb 2021 #20

There was never going to be a conviction StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #36

Exactly right. Nothing is going to change the outcome, The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2021 #41

That's what makes the point of this publicizing what happened, coti Feb 2021 #59

no real fight, just pro forma expediency bigtree Feb 2021 #48

Excellent Lulu KC Feb 2021 #82

No it doesn't. But the fact is we are dealing with GOP Senators who are traitors to our KPN Feb 2021 #47

True, but I think the point of live witnesses is for the camera, ie. for the publc LiberalLovinLug Feb 2021 #21

Showing a deposition of a congresswoman no one heard of in 2 or 3 weeks to talk about a phone call StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #129

Agreed, 1000%. ShazzieB Feb 2021 #171

the managers have done a great job fishwax Feb 2021 #22

I think a lot of us are just Bettie Feb 2021 #26

We don't need a conviction to have hope. Chemisse Feb 2021 #159

They asked for witnessses, forced a vote, won a vote, THEN caved! servermsh Feb 2021 #28

They asked for witnsses and got it and got the witnesses statement into the record StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #42

Since we know frumpy won't be convicted, but BleedsBlue Feb 2021 #62

The 14th Amendment can't be invoked unilaterally by Congress without a court finding of guilt StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #67

Kick Hekate Feb 2021 #29

+1 LizBeth Feb 2021 #33

Thank you! I've been ranting about this on other threads The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2021 #37

i've noticed and i think it's a damned shame CatWoman Feb 2021 #72

Some people will spend an hour complaining about something... CaptainTruth Feb 2021 #93

Captain... druidity33 Feb 2021 #127

Which is why the DU gods invented the "full ignore" feature flibbitygiblets Feb 2021 #155

Puhleeese.... PutGramaOnThePhone Feb 2021 #167

I think the managers have been great dsc Feb 2021 #38

They also stipulated, without objection, to the admission of the statements StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #77

the truth of what she said, or the truth that she said it dsc Feb 2021 #79

His failure to object to her statement is a tacit admission that her statement is true StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #88

It was, indeed. He knows exactly what's important to do. We're having the best outcome we can expect ancianita Feb 2021 #43

THANK YOU ismnotwasm Feb 2021 #44

can't understate the presence of Covid in all this.......... Takket Feb 2021 #46

I think everything you say is completely true, but I would take one aspect a little further. BobTheSubgenius Feb 2021 #52

K&R betsuni Feb 2021 #53

Cicicilline is reading the McCarthy quote into the record as part of the closing arguments BumRushDaShow Feb 2021 #54

Thank you for the explanation. FoxNewsSucks Feb 2021 #56

Thanks for the great explanation. greatauntoftriplets Feb 2021 #58

As you said..YOU calm down!!!! We don't need a boss here! Not adding Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2021 #60

Thank you! Wawannabe Feb 2021 #81

Agree!!! Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2021 #99

Agreed Evolve Dammit Feb 2021 #142

+1 Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2021 #149

Exactly. SunSeeker Feb 2021 #164

We don't need no stinkin thought police. Lol Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2021 #170

Or to be lectured to calm down by someone posting in all caps. LOL SunSeeker Feb 2021 #172

DUzy!!!!! Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2021 #192

Thank you. All the brow beating and intimidation is just nauseating. 58Sunliner Feb 2021 #189

Stipulations matter in a court of law, not a political coti Feb 2021 #63

You could say the same thing about testimony StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #84

The dramatic moment/publicity is what I've been arguing here. nt coti Feb 2021 #101

Why do you think Jaime Herrera Butler was going to produce a "dramatic moment" in two weeks? StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #104

This message was self-deleted by its author Ligyron Feb 2021 #124

You are spot on. Like one of the hundreds of tweets from Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2021 #152

To me Trump's "confession" (confirmation) is far more valuable than... CaptainTruth Feb 2021 #65

Let republicon senators mark themselves with protecting the seditionists Mersky Feb 2021 #66

McCarthy would have been anything but a cooperative witness dlk Feb 2021 #70

Trump's stipulation to the accuracy of Herrera Butler paves the way for some very damaging publicity Ford_Prefect Feb 2021 #73

Well said Lulu KC Feb 2021 #74

This is a good outcome. crickets Feb 2021 #75

Appreciate your explanation Kitchari Feb 2021 #76

The real win would have been hurple Feb 2021 #78

K&R. n/t ms liberty Feb 2021 #83

Her statement was already in the record. onecaliberal Feb 2021 #85

Leahy just spoke... Lars39 Feb 2021 #86

It already went out on "live TV"... BumRushDaShow Feb 2021 #92

WTF? I don't understand lindalou65 Feb 2021 #95

its standard trial procedure. drray23 Feb 2021 #132

The drama queeniness reminds me of election night.... marmar Feb 2021 #87

Oh gods, yes Hekate Feb 2021 #112

It could open a floodgate of witnesses. JohnnyRingo Feb 2021 #91

Nope, this was a cave. It looks weak DIVINEprividence Feb 2021 #97

the best thing about this site qazplm135 Feb 2021 #114

It will be very interesting to see what DoJ does with this DeminPennswoods Feb 2021 #98

I don't believe in being negative towards Democrats. Brogrizzly Feb 2021 #100

Trump may still see prison. Perhaps this year! TeamProg Feb 2021 #102

Spot on! sarchasm Feb 2021 #103

Well, ok. Between yours and ... electric_blue68 Feb 2021 #106

McConnell's speech True Blue American Feb 2021 #200

Agreed for future ads. Jamie & team were amazing!!! electric_blue68 Feb 2021 #202

1,000,000 % Recommended. H2O Man Feb 2021 #109

love the condensension about 'drama' bigtree Feb 2021 #113

If you aren't one of those looking for drama, then I wasn't talking about you StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #115

You are absolutely correct...win win. Demsrule86 Feb 2021 #116

Personally, I would have made them sweat and holler Roisin Ni Fiachra Feb 2021 #117

I've stayed away from here for the last few hours mcar Feb 2021 #119

I don't think this is a 'cave' at all. Not a bit. I think the Democrats are playing hardball. PatrickforO Feb 2021 #125

I don't think Raskin actually even wanted witnesses. He won at playing chicken, The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2021 #140

I agree TuxedoKat Feb 2021 #165

If I underrstand correctly, extending the trial with witnesses also had the possibility... JHB Feb 2021 #126

Yes. It could have StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #128

no, they would have/could have suspended the hearings bigtree Feb 2021 #131

I agree this was definitely a Win for our side msfiddlestix Feb 2021 #130

I'm waiting for the poor fucks who listened to Trump to get Historic NY Feb 2021 #133

No point in prolonging the inevitable. MoonlitKnight Feb 2021 #135

If it's not on video, it didn't happen. rainin Feb 2021 #141

I agree with your post, and await rebuttals. Still waiting for the un-redacted report as well.... Evolve Dammit Feb 2021 #146

What impact do you think a video of an unknown congresswoman StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #153

Said the "quit while you're behind" crowd rainin Feb 2021 #160

How ridiculous. StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #161

I was incomplete in my answer...sort of. rainin Feb 2021 #176

Here is why they stipulated to Buetler's statements BumRushDaShow Feb 2021 #169

Oh, yeah, justice was TOTALLY served. orangecrush Feb 2021 #151

K&R Blue Owl Feb 2021 #162

K&R!!!!!! Peacetrain Feb 2021 #163

Couldn't agree more grantcart Feb 2021 #175

I hate hearing the language that it was a "fumble" without... SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2021 #177

No it was not a win Meowmee Feb 2021 #178

I didn't say the trial resulted in a win StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #181

k&r n/t lordsummerisle Feb 2021 #182

Congresswoman Plaskett masterfully, explained to Joy Reid MerryBlooms Feb 2021 #185

Can I beg to disagree? DonaldsRump Feb 2021 #186

Neither Watergate nor Benghazi proceedings you're referring to were an impeachment trial StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #188

We seem to agree to get at the same point DonaldsRump Feb 2021 #190

Suspending an impeachment indefinitely would create a mess StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #194

Nite! It's early still in the West Coast, so I will keep it going from my side DonaldsRump Feb 2021 #195

Post removed Post removed Feb 2021 #187

"Trump admitting that the conversation occurred takes care of that." 58Sunliner Feb 2021 #191

Agreed SledDriver Feb 2021 #197

I agree completely. 58Sunliner Feb 2021 #198

Cogently and lucidly expressed. Let's not gift many dozens of lazy MSM journalists their catnip Prof.Higgins Feb 2021 #196

Agree this was a win, and so in the end was the vote of 57-43 to convict. Hortensis Feb 2021 #199

Agree! 100%! True Blue American Feb 2021 #201