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In reply to the discussion: Florida Election software Flips Vote: Losers Certified as Winners [View all]Land Shark
(6,348 posts)166. I encourage you, YET no audit provides REASSURANCE of election accuracy
If you were to call what you are doing INVESTIGATING, I'd be all for it. Then, after your investigation (limited as it is and probably always will be with computerized systems) you clean report the positives and negatives that resulted, and indicate clearly how the scope of your investigation (formerly called an "audit"
However, whenever somebody calls something an "audit" it intrinsically and unavoidably suggests to every reader that passing the "audit" means the election was free and fair, etc. And that's just a false, overreaching statement. The last thing anybody should do is inspire false-confidence but this happens unavoidably by using the concept of an "audit".
If the IRS only "audited" 1 or 2% of your tax deductions, would you consider that to be an "IRS audit" or would a tax cheat laugh themselves silly realizing that 98 or 99% of their erroneous and illegal deductions would not get caught? It's a simple matter to do the math and randomly bury a certain number of fraudulent precincts necessary to steal, say, 2% of the vote, and then see what the odds are that a 1% random audit of precincts will actually uncover any of the fraudulent precincts. ??
This is why Palm Beach County elections supervisor Susan Bucher is so sure that other errors exist that were NOT caught. The Florida 2% audit is going to miss many errors and fraudulent elections, even in those fraction of cases where this type of audit is fully CAPABLE of catching the error (there are other kinds of frauds that this kind of audit will never catch and indeed it is not designed to catch them)
The above can be summed up in part by saying there are huge issues with the SCOPE of any audit (as well as the TIMELINESS of any audit), especially in light of the over-reassurance and false confidence suggested by the term "audit" itself. Ultimately, no election is truly "auditable" because of the secret ballot - it denies the ability to connect a ballot to a voter and go back to the source of the information (the voter herself) and verify that the ballot correctly reflects the voter's intent and has not changed.
To make an analogy to a truer and better audit - the IRS audit - it would be like the IRS being unable to require the production of original sources of information (receipts for deductions) and then concluding at the end of such an IRS "Audit" that if one somehow passed the audit that all deductions were somehow legit! Without being able to go back to the voter or the receipt, no true audit is possible under any formula one might devise.
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Republicans care about every conceivable security breech except for e-voting
Tom Rinaldo
Oct 2012
#2
He was "supposed to be" investigating election fraud in Florida, but citizens found it instead.
robinlynne
Oct 2012
#52
Plus it teaches them they can't really trust 'grown-ups' to always do the right thing.
hootinholler
Oct 2012
#90
Thanks. I could write an essay on the idiocy of claiming such behavior is a "bug."
TahitiNut
Oct 2012
#151
Please do. You can start by disassembling the vendor "explanations" at this link
Land Shark
Oct 2012
#158
Not necessary: From the article:"In other words, it wasn't a bug, it was a feature."
TahitiNut
Oct 2012
#180
Well, if the voter receipt matches the rolling paper in the machine (through a window),...
HopeHoops
Oct 2012
#94
The sad thing is that they COULD be accurate AND trustworthy. They just aren't.
HopeHoops
Oct 2012
#137
Hand counted paper ballots, in and of themselves, ARE trustworthy, but more is...
Land Shark
Oct 2012
#138
True (with regard to computerized vote counting, which is inherently secret vote counting)
Land Shark
Oct 2012
#142
Well, I posted this elsewhere, but I'll post it again. I think we need at least a 2-week window.
HopeHoops
Oct 2012
#175
DUers need to read this and get it up high on the greatest page. This is what will determine the re
robinlynne
Oct 2012
#13
DECADES! Ohio was solid BLUE before punch card voting made it too easy to fix elections
Coyotl
Oct 2012
#132
Audits must be ANNOUNCED b/c they're legal requirements, so fraudsters can always work around
Land Shark
Oct 2012
#157
in theory, local election boards are responsible and should want to make sure they are counting the
NoMoreWarNow
Oct 2012
#36
The reality is that if we stop one form of election fraud, the GOP will always invent another one.
factsarenotfair
Oct 2012
#37
May I add that the federal program which oversees the federal cerification is staffed
robinlynne
Oct 2012
#61
more support than I have ever seen for a US president since John Kennedy. How's that?
robinlynne
Oct 2012
#119
Thousands, literally, see their vote flipped, but they seem reassured b/c thinking they "Caught it"
Land Shark
Oct 2012
#155
and don't forget, for a few months in there, Diebold/Premier was owned by ESS.
garybeck
Oct 2012
#164
This IS the ticking time bomb. Also 19 States now NOT doing EXIT POLLS??? WTF?
99th_Monkey
Oct 2012
#100
These kind of reports make me sick to my stomach and causes sleep problems.
Auntie Bush
Oct 2012
#115
Way past time to make voting machines as secure as ATM's...it's a joke passing as democracy. nt
mother earth
Oct 2012
#144
There has to be an audit trail, but certainly the paper ballots are best, the polls are tools,
mother earth
Oct 2012
#178
if you want to change it, pay attention to your Secretary of State elections.
NuttyFluffers
Oct 2012
#145
Problem is, SOS Bowen exposed many (not all) problems, AND KEPT THE COMPUTERIZED SYSTEMS
Land Shark
Oct 2012
#193
DREs are only for disabled voters who explicitly choose to vote that way
NuttyFluffers
Oct 2012
#197
Sequoia (now Dominion) optical scan systems, 2% audits (officials sure all errors NOT caught)
Land Shark
Oct 2012
#152
thanks. so let me get this straight.... Diebold, ESS, Premier, Dominion..... all the same....?
garybeck
Oct 2012
#159
After a flurry of recent mergers/divestitures, Dominion dominates as follows
Land Shark
Oct 2012
#163
during the brief period that ESS owned Diebold/Permier, don't you think they would have
garybeck
Oct 2012
#196
I could have detected this problem with statistics BEFORE the election was certified.
fchoquette
Oct 2012
#174
Cameras and cell phones cant take a picture of the vote counting when it takes place
garybeck
Oct 2012
#191