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(94,374 posts)
17. I do think there's value in confronting the opponent's lies during a debate
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
Oct 2012

What I'm not convinced of is the idea that Barack Obama would not be dealing with some sort of media-driven perception of a first debate loss. The campaign had almost no control over the expectations game. It looks to me like it was rigged to declare that ANY fault from the president would translate into a major 'loss.'

And, I don't think I'm coming at this conclusion from the same place that you're criticizing him. I don't think the Obama camp anticipated that the blowback would come from a flood of folks criticizing them for not being hard enough on Romney. I just don't think that's what they went into the debate to do; they didn't have placating their base of supporters desire for a brawl at the head of their debate agenda. That may well have been a mistake.

We can't wish scenarios into place; as you say; but, I'm not sure that the President's desire to follow his own game-plan of defining his own agenda and contrasting the substance of his initiatives against Romney's anticipated that he'd be defending himself against his own constituency; buttressed by the almost universal decision to judge the contest on the music, rather than the verse. There wasn't any need for the Romney camp to tear down the substance of the President's actual remarks and responses (and he didn't give them any); They have this hollow narrative of a 'win.' on cosmetics and 'style.' That's it. Not a finger has been laid, by the press or the Romney campaign on what the President asserted in that debate.

On the other hand, there's Romney and the majority of his debate patter regarded as shady and false. That's been effectively capitalized on in the aftermath of the debate by the Obama camp, and, it's hard to imagine that ANYTHING else that he did in that debate would have done him anymore good. I say this because of the historical fault in these first debates for the incumbent. The challenger always gets a few points for standing tall alongside the president of the United states; for being on the same stage. That's all that's reflected in the polls with most of the movement, momentarily, solidifying the republican base to rally around their nominee. Nothing has changed in our registration and organizational efforts which will determine the race in these final days. No major shift looks to have occurred which, I don't believe, would have occurred anyway.

Now, of course, the President is going to perform for his supporters Tuesday. He got that message. I'm sure he gets it now. Yet, I can't help but wonder what we're losing in giving more credence to the posture of these candidates than to the actual substance of what they're saying. That's a slope that we should want to stay on top of; rather than sliding down with folks who couldn't care less about the pitfalls below.

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If you look at the MSNBC homepage right now Nevernose Oct 2012 #1
Last night, David Gergen (CNN) stated that "Ryan won on style." CrispyQ Oct 2012 #3
they said romney won on style. lets see, be aggressive and lie. style. mellow and lie, style. seabeyond Oct 2012 #7
This is how shallow our culture has become - you can win a debate on style. CrispyQ Oct 2012 #11
WTF? treestar Oct 2012 #15
yup. repugs immediately started putting out the fire. we blew on the flames and fanned them seabeyond Oct 2012 #2
OMG THANK YOU BumRushDaShow Oct 2012 #4
this is why it's all the more important for us to be honest with ourselves DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2012 #5
there is not ONE point that Romney made in that debate that he has been able to capitalize on bigtree Oct 2012 #9
It's not that I disagree with most of what you say here Time for change Oct 2012 #16
I do think there's value in confronting the opponent's lies during a debate bigtree Oct 2012 #17
I agree with you that much more credence should be given to substance than posture Time for change Oct 2012 #18
Romney was full of lies. On that we agree. But Obama lost ground where it mattered DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2012 #19
Nate Silver bigtree Oct 2012 #20
It's a game of slim margins DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2012 #21
We DID get credit for last night's debate. Not as much as we should have. randome Oct 2012 #6
The MSM doesn't realize it, but their duplicity in reporting about these debates is MADem Oct 2012 #8
Interesting analogy. I think you're right. The old ways are slowly dying out. randome Oct 2012 #13
'Style' is the new 'lies'. HappyMe Oct 2012 #10
. n/t porphyrian Oct 2012 #12
I am convinced this is why Americans don't have Health Care Whisp Oct 2012 #14
There is a bias. That's why we always have to be on our game, at least 10 times better ecstatic Oct 2012 #22
. bigtree Oct 2012 #23
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