General Discussion

AndyS

(14,559 posts)

17. Yes, and Stoner nor any of his family ever owned an AR-15 or advocated it be available to the

Tue Mar 23, 2021, 07:50 PM

Mar 2021

general public.

The reason it is so popular is that prior to this RFQ all military weapons were designed and manufactured through Springfield Armory which is a Pentagon agency. They own all rights and patents attached to the rifle and can be let out for manufacture by contractors that have no right to the design.

The M-16 was the first let out for competitive bids for design.

So, the taxpayer paid for all the R&D and the gun industry made a mint filling Military orders. They retained the design and patents. Then they produced the prototype AR-15 for public sale and made a lot of money.

The M-14 is design is owned by Springfield and although a semi auto is available (the mini-14) it is more expensive and plagued with accuracy and other issues because the maker had to re-invent the wheel without government support.

In a nutshell and not specifically totally accurate to a gunner's standard but close enough for reasonable people.

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MSNBC, Ari Melber just did a fantastic report on the AR15. [View all] AndyS Mar 2021 OP

And it's made to look like a military rifle to tickle rube gunners' fancy. Hoyt Mar 2021 #1

Agree malaise Mar 2021 #2

re-post this all over Trueblue1968 Mar 2021 #3

When I find a link. AndyS Mar 2021 #6

Here's the link to the piece... IcyPeas Mar 2021 #63

K&R, All Pistol Grip Rifle or anything close should be banned. They're designed for mass kills uponit7771 Mar 2021 #4

It's not the pistol grip that kills, its the velocity RainCaster Mar 2021 #35

True, but its the pistol grip that allows for easier aiming while rapid shot at hip level. Germans uponit7771 Mar 2021 #38

Agreed. It's the automatic feature that makes it more deadly... RainCaster Mar 2021 #39

THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 uponit7771 Mar 2021 #42

It's the .223 or 5.56 bullet that is what makes it so lethal. joshcryer Mar 2021 #5

Not quite Zeitghost Mar 2021 #13

The requirement for the M-16 was to have equivalent wounding power to the .30 Carbine cartridge Klaralven Mar 2021 #19

Full metal jackets are mandated by international law hack89 Mar 2021 #66

But the enemy's willingness and ability to fight is reduce more by wounding than killing soldiers Klaralven Mar 2021 #68

The ICC amended the Hague declaration on expanding bullets in 2010 hack89 Mar 2021 #72

Hence the Army's new 9mm round, the M1153. It's a hollow point. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #80

Which required significant legal gyrations by Army lawyers hack89 Mar 2021 #87

That doesn't align with the Ari Melber segment. So you're KPN Mar 2021 #21

It's accurate but a bit misleading and missing context Zeitghost Mar 2021 #33

So, you're saying they're not desgined to be as lethal as possible? joshcryer Mar 2021 #44

There was a long prior development of .22 caliber, high-velocity "varmint" rifles and ammunition Klaralven Mar 2021 #73

I think this is fascinating... joshcryer Mar 2021 #75

Could not the same be said for virtually any centerfire cartridge? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #79

The thing is... joshcryer Mar 2021 #99

Lightweight, low recoiling rifles have been around for over a century. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #104

Actually, at close range, point blank, a .22 Short will kill you Klaralven Mar 2021 #135

When it hits flesh the round tumbles. Small hole going in, huge hole going out with LiberalLoner Mar 2021 #14

Yep tumbling round. Chews up the victim. An injured soldier takes 3-4 out of the fight underpants Mar 2021 #20

That is a myth hack89 Mar 2021 #27

Point blank not much difference between a 5.56 and a 300. joshcryer Mar 2021 #48

There is a huge difference hack89 Mar 2021 #49

Dead is dead man. joshcryer Mar 2021 #51

I was arguing the point that 5.56 was not engineered to be uniquely lethal hack89 Mar 2021 #54

It's more that people ret-con its lethality. joshcryer Mar 2021 #55

That statement applies to all rifles hack89 Mar 2021 #65

Yeah man. joshcryer Mar 2021 #67

Hunting rounds are much more lethal than smaller caliber rounds hack89 Mar 2021 #70

Yeah but good luck using 300 rounds... joshcryer Mar 2021 #100

The AR10 comes in 7.62mm NATO hack89 Mar 2021 #102

Please don't conflate the M60 with the AR15. joshcryer Mar 2021 #103

There's nothing uniquely lethal about 5.56x45 as compared to all other rounds. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #107

Except the WASR-10 sells for 3x the S&W Sport II. joshcryer Mar 2021 #110

And there are AK's on Gunbroker right now for under $800. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #119

I didn't. You have no clue what an AR-10 looks like, do you? hack89 Mar 2021 #111

You still haven't accepted that higher rounds don't matter... joshcryer Mar 2021 #113

So there is no point in focusing on the bullets, is there. Nt hack89 Mar 2021 #117

There is. joshcryer Mar 2021 #118

No one is disputing that a centerfire rifle round is more lethal than a pistol round. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #121

Yes. joshcryer Mar 2021 #124

So which rounds do you propose outlawng? What's your definition of a "military-style round"? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #127

I don't know. joshcryer Mar 2021 #129

Well, that does make you propsal a bit difficult. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #132

Simple? Straw Man Mar 2021 #138

The 5.56x45 round used in most AR-15's has been a popular hunting cartridge for over half a century. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #81

Yup. Straw Man Mar 2021 #64

Christchurch was streamed live. joshcryer Mar 2021 #69

That means nothing in this discussion. Straw Man Mar 2021 #108

The 5.56x45 round has less than half the energy of the .30-06 we used in WW1 and WW2. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #52

It was designed by Eugene Stoner of the ArmaLite division of Fairchild Klaralven Mar 2021 #7

Yes, and Stoner nor any of his family ever owned an AR-15 or advocated it be available to the AndyS Mar 2021 #17

The pistol grip also adds to sales. That's why it was banned for a while after the law underpants Mar 2021 #25

There's a problem with one of Ari's characterizations. Straw Man Mar 2021 #8

It is velocity....it is a Killing Machine ashredux Mar 2021 #10

As is any hunting rifle. Straw Man Mar 2021 #12

standard AR-15 bullet travels at 3,251 feet per second and delivers 1300 foot pounds. ashredux Mar 2021 #18

You are correct Zeitghost Mar 2021 #34

And a 125-grain .308 Winchester goes 3,100 fps and delivers 2,668 foot pounds. Straw Man Mar 2021 #41

Such a high velocity shell can enter your shoulder and travel through your internal organs ashredux Mar 2021 #23

All Bullets Willto Mar 2021 #61

A 30 caliber deer round is even more lethal hack89 Mar 2021 #28

Point blank one single bullet will almost certainly kill you. joshcryer Mar 2021 #47

As will any hunting cartridge. Straw Man Mar 2021 #59

The .223/5.56 is unique in mass, concerted, killings. joshcryer Mar 2021 #76

It's simply the most common chambering of the the most popular rifle in America. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #82

Ooh ok. It's just popular. joshcryer Mar 2021 #95

I don't understand this fixation on the .223/5.56. Straw Man Mar 2021 #105

It absolutely is uniuqely lethal. joshcryer Mar 2021 #106

This simply isn't the case. Are you saying that somone hit by a 5.56x45 is two or three times as Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #112

Close range in a mass shooting event? joshcryer Mar 2021 #115

Absurd. The 7.62x51 round has twice the energy of the 5.56x45. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #122

A .223 is in the chest will kill you... joshcryer Mar 2021 #126

99% of the time? Citation, please. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #128

OK joshcryer Mar 2021 #130

How does that support your assertion that 99% of those hit in the chest by a 5.56x45 round die? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #133

Cognitive dissonance. Straw Man Mar 2021 #114

Because of its self-admitted by commonality. joshcryer Mar 2021 #116

What on earth are you talking about? Straw Man Mar 2021 #120

I don't know of any mass shootings... joshcryer Mar 2021 #131

You've never heard of Virigina Tech? Straw Man Mar 2021 #136

No one is saying that the round won't kill someone, but there's been a myth about it being uniquely Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #109

Need a radical rethink of these weapons. OAITW r.2.0 Mar 2021 #9

Exactly this! jmbar2 Mar 2021 #26

"...seriously triggered by gun control discussions." ShazzieB Mar 2021 #43

pure coinkydink jmbar2 Mar 2021 #56

That is indeed radical, which is why such a proposal doesn't have the slightest chance of passing. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #84

You don't even have to shoot well to kill a lot of people, just point and keep pulling the trigger Ohioboy Mar 2021 #11

It's time they were banned. Enough. Hunting rifles, shotguns fine. Enough. General Wesley Clark Evolve Dammit Mar 2021 #15

agreed 100 %. spent 3 yrs in v.n. jungles . to many wanna be's military clown's monkeyman1 Mar 2021 #22

Ari showed this list... These shootings are increasing IcyPeas Mar 2021 #16

Scary! burrowowl Mar 2021 #31

Ever since I saw the Christchurch mosque shootings... joshcryer Mar 2021 #50

Nothing "smart" people didn't already know. Ferrets are Cool Mar 2021 #24

I don't know how much detail they went into, but was ultimately designated the AR-15... George II Mar 2021 #29

I recently purchased one. BlueTsunami2018 Mar 2021 #30

I'll reserve judgment until I see the report SYFROYH Mar 2021 #32

The ones that come in colors and have cutesy designs... 3catwoman3 Mar 2021 #36

I saw this decal on the back of a jeep shortly after Sandy Hook and it is still for sale on Amazon IcyPeas Mar 2021 #89

I don't know if I can think of anything more depraved... 3catwoman3 Mar 2021 #92

It's the cartridge that makes it all possible 1cheapbeemr Mar 2021 #37

My condolences for your experience. Shouldn't happen to anyone. AndyS Mar 2021 #40

Hey AndyS it's been posted if you want to edit your post: joshcryer Mar 2021 #58

I remain very thankful that I have ZERO interest in guns. None. ever. NewHendoLib Mar 2021 #45

I guess it's a "modern sporting rifle" if the aim is to put a whole ton of lead into a deer. BobTheSubgenius Mar 2021 #46

It's not the Cartridge Willto Mar 2021 #53

Dude, point blank there's virtually no difference. joshcryer Mar 2021 #57

Did you even read my post? Willto Mar 2021 #60

Hey Will, you're right on all points. AndyS Mar 2021 #62

I did and all due respect... joshcryer Mar 2021 #71

I wouldn't say fantastic SYFROYH Mar 2021 #74

Oh give me a break. AndyS Mar 2021 #77

Gun control, in general, is a winning issue, but banning commonly owned rifles may not be so great. SYFROYH Mar 2021 #78

Let's grant for the the sake of argument that the AR-15 is a military weapon. So what? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #83

Your information is out of date. Straw Man Mar 2021 #137

I see our resident gunners are out in force in the thread. BannonsLiver Mar 2021 #85

👍 AndyS Mar 2021 #86

"Using their NRA taught obfuscation techniques" Commonly know as "facts" ? EX500rider Mar 2021 #88

there there. BannonsLiver Mar 2021 #90

Gun fetishes are disgusting. hunter Mar 2021 #94

I have absolute respect for some gun guys here. joshcryer Mar 2021 #101

You find gun enthusiasts comparable to child molesters? Really? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #125

Aqualung is only watching... hunter Mar 2021 #134

Just FYI, the military is considering replacing the M-16 / M-4 platform with a larger caliber Calista241 Mar 2021 #91

Yes, I was aware there was a new RFQ for a more lethal rifle. AndyS Mar 2021 #93

Yep, the semi-auto version will be on the market... joshcryer Mar 2021 #97

Lather, rinse and repeat . . . AndyS Mar 2021 #98

The 6.8 SPC has been an available chambering for AR-15's for some time now. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #123

only cause ISIS and other groups have started utilizing bp vests joshcryer Mar 2021 #96