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Klaralven

(7,510 posts)

135. Actually, at close range, point blank, a .22 Short will kill you

Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:50 PM

Mar 2021

The .22 short was loaded to just under the velocity of sound so the bullet did not produce the "crack" of a supersonic round.

Then, with the muzzle blast silenced, it was very quiet.

High Standard made an automatic pistol which would cycle reliably using an of the .22 Short, Long, or Long Rifle cartridges and these, equipped with silencers were used by OSS agents during WW II. The actual ammo was a .22 Long Rifle with a full metal jacket bullet and a reduced powder load to Short velocity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Standard_HDM

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MSNBC, Ari Melber just did a fantastic report on the AR15. [View all] AndyS Mar 2021 OP

And it's made to look like a military rifle to tickle rube gunners' fancy. Hoyt Mar 2021 #1

Agree malaise Mar 2021 #2

re-post this all over Trueblue1968 Mar 2021 #3

When I find a link. AndyS Mar 2021 #6

Here's the link to the piece... IcyPeas Mar 2021 #63

K&R, All Pistol Grip Rifle or anything close should be banned. They're designed for mass kills uponit7771 Mar 2021 #4

It's not the pistol grip that kills, its the velocity RainCaster Mar 2021 #35

True, but its the pistol grip that allows for easier aiming while rapid shot at hip level. Germans uponit7771 Mar 2021 #38

Agreed. It's the automatic feature that makes it more deadly... RainCaster Mar 2021 #39

THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 uponit7771 Mar 2021 #42

It's the .223 or 5.56 bullet that is what makes it so lethal. joshcryer Mar 2021 #5

Not quite Zeitghost Mar 2021 #13

The requirement for the M-16 was to have equivalent wounding power to the .30 Carbine cartridge Klaralven Mar 2021 #19

Full metal jackets are mandated by international law hack89 Mar 2021 #66

But the enemy's willingness and ability to fight is reduce more by wounding than killing soldiers Klaralven Mar 2021 #68

The ICC amended the Hague declaration on expanding bullets in 2010 hack89 Mar 2021 #72

Hence the Army's new 9mm round, the M1153. It's a hollow point. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #80

Which required significant legal gyrations by Army lawyers hack89 Mar 2021 #87

That doesn't align with the Ari Melber segment. So you're KPN Mar 2021 #21

It's accurate but a bit misleading and missing context Zeitghost Mar 2021 #33

So, you're saying they're not desgined to be as lethal as possible? joshcryer Mar 2021 #44

There was a long prior development of .22 caliber, high-velocity "varmint" rifles and ammunition Klaralven Mar 2021 #73

I think this is fascinating... joshcryer Mar 2021 #75

Could not the same be said for virtually any centerfire cartridge? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #79

The thing is... joshcryer Mar 2021 #99

Lightweight, low recoiling rifles have been around for over a century. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #104

Actually, at close range, point blank, a .22 Short will kill you Klaralven Mar 2021 #135

When it hits flesh the round tumbles. Small hole going in, huge hole going out with LiberalLoner Mar 2021 #14

Yep tumbling round. Chews up the victim. An injured soldier takes 3-4 out of the fight underpants Mar 2021 #20

That is a myth hack89 Mar 2021 #27

Point blank not much difference between a 5.56 and a 300. joshcryer Mar 2021 #48

There is a huge difference hack89 Mar 2021 #49

Dead is dead man. joshcryer Mar 2021 #51

I was arguing the point that 5.56 was not engineered to be uniquely lethal hack89 Mar 2021 #54

It's more that people ret-con its lethality. joshcryer Mar 2021 #55

That statement applies to all rifles hack89 Mar 2021 #65

Yeah man. joshcryer Mar 2021 #67

Hunting rounds are much more lethal than smaller caliber rounds hack89 Mar 2021 #70

Yeah but good luck using 300 rounds... joshcryer Mar 2021 #100

The AR10 comes in 7.62mm NATO hack89 Mar 2021 #102

Please don't conflate the M60 with the AR15. joshcryer Mar 2021 #103

There's nothing uniquely lethal about 5.56x45 as compared to all other rounds. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #107

Except the WASR-10 sells for 3x the S&W Sport II. joshcryer Mar 2021 #110

And there are AK's on Gunbroker right now for under $800. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #119

I didn't. You have no clue what an AR-10 looks like, do you? hack89 Mar 2021 #111

You still haven't accepted that higher rounds don't matter... joshcryer Mar 2021 #113

So there is no point in focusing on the bullets, is there. Nt hack89 Mar 2021 #117

There is. joshcryer Mar 2021 #118

No one is disputing that a centerfire rifle round is more lethal than a pistol round. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #121

Yes. joshcryer Mar 2021 #124

So which rounds do you propose outlawng? What's your definition of a "military-style round"? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #127

I don't know. joshcryer Mar 2021 #129

Well, that does make you propsal a bit difficult. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #132

Simple? Straw Man Mar 2021 #138

The 5.56x45 round used in most AR-15's has been a popular hunting cartridge for over half a century. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #81

Yup. Straw Man Mar 2021 #64

Christchurch was streamed live. joshcryer Mar 2021 #69

That means nothing in this discussion. Straw Man Mar 2021 #108

The 5.56x45 round has less than half the energy of the .30-06 we used in WW1 and WW2. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #52

It was designed by Eugene Stoner of the ArmaLite division of Fairchild Klaralven Mar 2021 #7

Yes, and Stoner nor any of his family ever owned an AR-15 or advocated it be available to the AndyS Mar 2021 #17

The pistol grip also adds to sales. That's why it was banned for a while after the law underpants Mar 2021 #25

There's a problem with one of Ari's characterizations. Straw Man Mar 2021 #8

It is velocity....it is a Killing Machine ashredux Mar 2021 #10

As is any hunting rifle. Straw Man Mar 2021 #12

standard AR-15 bullet travels at 3,251 feet per second and delivers 1300 foot pounds. ashredux Mar 2021 #18

You are correct Zeitghost Mar 2021 #34

And a 125-grain .308 Winchester goes 3,100 fps and delivers 2,668 foot pounds. Straw Man Mar 2021 #41

Such a high velocity shell can enter your shoulder and travel through your internal organs ashredux Mar 2021 #23

All Bullets Willto Mar 2021 #61

A 30 caliber deer round is even more lethal hack89 Mar 2021 #28

Point blank one single bullet will almost certainly kill you. joshcryer Mar 2021 #47

As will any hunting cartridge. Straw Man Mar 2021 #59

The .223/5.56 is unique in mass, concerted, killings. joshcryer Mar 2021 #76

It's simply the most common chambering of the the most popular rifle in America. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #82

Ooh ok. It's just popular. joshcryer Mar 2021 #95

I don't understand this fixation on the .223/5.56. Straw Man Mar 2021 #105

It absolutely is uniuqely lethal. joshcryer Mar 2021 #106

This simply isn't the case. Are you saying that somone hit by a 5.56x45 is two or three times as Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #112

Close range in a mass shooting event? joshcryer Mar 2021 #115

Absurd. The 7.62x51 round has twice the energy of the 5.56x45. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #122

A .223 is in the chest will kill you... joshcryer Mar 2021 #126

99% of the time? Citation, please. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #128

OK joshcryer Mar 2021 #130

How does that support your assertion that 99% of those hit in the chest by a 5.56x45 round die? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #133

Cognitive dissonance. Straw Man Mar 2021 #114

Because of its self-admitted by commonality. joshcryer Mar 2021 #116

What on earth are you talking about? Straw Man Mar 2021 #120

I don't know of any mass shootings... joshcryer Mar 2021 #131

You've never heard of Virigina Tech? Straw Man Mar 2021 #136

No one is saying that the round won't kill someone, but there's been a myth about it being uniquely Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #109

Need a radical rethink of these weapons. OAITW r.2.0 Mar 2021 #9

Exactly this! jmbar2 Mar 2021 #26

"...seriously triggered by gun control discussions." ShazzieB Mar 2021 #43

pure coinkydink jmbar2 Mar 2021 #56

That is indeed radical, which is why such a proposal doesn't have the slightest chance of passing. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #84

You don't even have to shoot well to kill a lot of people, just point and keep pulling the trigger Ohioboy Mar 2021 #11

It's time they were banned. Enough. Hunting rifles, shotguns fine. Enough. General Wesley Clark Evolve Dammit Mar 2021 #15

agreed 100 %. spent 3 yrs in v.n. jungles . to many wanna be's military clown's monkeyman1 Mar 2021 #22

Ari showed this list... These shootings are increasing IcyPeas Mar 2021 #16

Scary! burrowowl Mar 2021 #31

Ever since I saw the Christchurch mosque shootings... joshcryer Mar 2021 #50

Nothing "smart" people didn't already know. Ferrets are Cool Mar 2021 #24

I don't know how much detail they went into, but was ultimately designated the AR-15... George II Mar 2021 #29

I recently purchased one. BlueTsunami2018 Mar 2021 #30

I'll reserve judgment until I see the report SYFROYH Mar 2021 #32

The ones that come in colors and have cutesy designs... 3catwoman3 Mar 2021 #36

I saw this decal on the back of a jeep shortly after Sandy Hook and it is still for sale on Amazon IcyPeas Mar 2021 #89

I don't know if I can think of anything more depraved... 3catwoman3 Mar 2021 #92

It's the cartridge that makes it all possible 1cheapbeemr Mar 2021 #37

My condolences for your experience. Shouldn't happen to anyone. AndyS Mar 2021 #40

Hey AndyS it's been posted if you want to edit your post: joshcryer Mar 2021 #58

I remain very thankful that I have ZERO interest in guns. None. ever. NewHendoLib Mar 2021 #45

I guess it's a "modern sporting rifle" if the aim is to put a whole ton of lead into a deer. BobTheSubgenius Mar 2021 #46

It's not the Cartridge Willto Mar 2021 #53

Dude, point blank there's virtually no difference. joshcryer Mar 2021 #57

Did you even read my post? Willto Mar 2021 #60

Hey Will, you're right on all points. AndyS Mar 2021 #62

I did and all due respect... joshcryer Mar 2021 #71

I wouldn't say fantastic SYFROYH Mar 2021 #74

Oh give me a break. AndyS Mar 2021 #77

Gun control, in general, is a winning issue, but banning commonly owned rifles may not be so great. SYFROYH Mar 2021 #78

Let's grant for the the sake of argument that the AR-15 is a military weapon. So what? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #83

Your information is out of date. Straw Man Mar 2021 #137

I see our resident gunners are out in force in the thread. BannonsLiver Mar 2021 #85

👍 AndyS Mar 2021 #86

"Using their NRA taught obfuscation techniques" Commonly know as "facts" ? EX500rider Mar 2021 #88

there there. BannonsLiver Mar 2021 #90

Gun fetishes are disgusting. hunter Mar 2021 #94

I have absolute respect for some gun guys here. joshcryer Mar 2021 #101

You find gun enthusiasts comparable to child molesters? Really? Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #125

Aqualung is only watching... hunter Mar 2021 #134

Just FYI, the military is considering replacing the M-16 / M-4 platform with a larger caliber Calista241 Mar 2021 #91

Yes, I was aware there was a new RFQ for a more lethal rifle. AndyS Mar 2021 #93

Yep, the semi-auto version will be on the market... joshcryer Mar 2021 #97

Lather, rinse and repeat . . . AndyS Mar 2021 #98

The 6.8 SPC has been an available chambering for AR-15's for some time now. Dial H For Hero Mar 2021 #123

only cause ISIS and other groups have started utilizing bp vests joshcryer Mar 2021 #96