General Discussion

Jirel

(2,369 posts)

83. That's ridiculous.

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 12:16 PM

Apr 2021

1) No attempt at deescalation. Funny, that's done successfully in (white) domestic disputes and brawls all the time.

2) He actually endangered the woman he was trying to "save" (and other bystanders) far more than the knife would have done, by shooting in close quarters. Shooting MULTIPLE TIMES. A stab wound can often be treated without much incident unless the wielder gets lucky and hits a critical spot, which is harder to do than most people think.

3) Never heard of proportional use of force? Emptying a full clip into the chest of a little teen? Sounds like a taser would've been safer for everyone, assuming ANY force was needed.

She was not "trying to murder another girl." She had CALLED FOR HELP. Holding a knife in a self-defense situation is not "trying to murder another girl." Or if someone tried to harm you, and you grabbed a knife or a baseball bat to defend YOURSELF, should YOU be blown away as the real aggressor and danger to everyone around you?

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If the Ohio shooting of the teenage girl is not justified, then no shooting is justified... [View all] ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 OP

Just because it can be justified legally doesn't mean it was just and that there isn't a better way. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #1

Fine. Just what is that better way? TreasonousBastard Apr 2021 #2

Abolish the police and invest the bloated budgets into systems that actually help people. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #3

You have to demilitarize the populace first. Kaleva Apr 2021 #31

That's an excellent way to ensure it never happens, lol. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #37

There isn't enough support to do that though. Kaleva Apr 2021 #56

I mean, that sounds great and all.... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #89

Meeting people's needs goes a long way toward decreasing crime. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #98

Of course it does....but... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #102

ok I'll put you down for a no WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #124

A no for what? Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #137

For abolition, as you said. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #144

ACTIVE SHOOTER DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #161

Cops generally don't help them now, so we fund the things that do help people. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #175

Who helps them now? DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #177

What should have been done in this particular case? phylny Apr 2021 #4

Taser? AndyS Apr 2021 #5

Maybe so. phylny Apr 2021 #9

I think a Taser was a good option... FarPoint Apr 2021 #14

A Taser may or may not be effective. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #91

If we're talking about hypotheticals about what should have been done, we should have abolished WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #6

I don't disagree. phylny Apr 2021 #8

. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #17

Okay, fair enough. phylny Apr 2021 #19

The only solution to police violence is to not have police at all. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #29

The only solution to police violence is to not have violence at all DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #180

We actually know a lot of the reasons why people become violent, and many of them are preventable. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #184

many of them are preventable. DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #186

Your question isn't clear. What kind of violence, and is the call coming to me, or do I see it? WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #187

Active Shooter, you are getting the call and you are the leader. nt DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #188

They could have not shot Ma'Khia. BradAllison Apr 2021 #46

it is not one or the other DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #162

What about a warning shot? ChicagoRonin Apr 2021 #30

I agree that a warning shot would have been useful here greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #32

"Warning shots" do absolutely nothing. Straw Man Apr 2021 #147

Who said anything about shooting in the air? greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #149

Same thing. Straw Man Apr 2021 #151

Yeah, I doubt it greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #152

Doubt away. Straw Man Apr 2021 #155

The girl that was killed was already pumped with adrenaline. yagotme Apr 2021 #174

Warning shots go against several rules of firearm safety. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #35

So does firing four times at the two women fighting by a car. sop Apr 2021 #57

Indeed. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #59

That was a decent sized knife... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #120

One might argue Ma'Khia Bryant was "standing her ground" and the cop shot her while she was sop Apr 2021 #132

One could argue that, I guess, but the video does not support that argument. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #138

Yeah, it was an ugly, chaotic, no win situation. Family dispute police calls usually are. That's sop Apr 2021 #141

Yup. Good observation. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #142

He didn't fire "at the two women." Straw Man Apr 2021 #148

Agree on this greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #150

Look at the body cam video again. sop Apr 2021 #159

I have. Straw Man Apr 2021 #166

Bullets do not evaporate after a certain time sarisataka Apr 2021 #38

Can you shoot into the ground? ChicagoRonin Apr 2021 #43

On a hard surface there is risk sarisataka Apr 2021 #68

The shots were fired as the knife-swinging arm was in motion Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #52

You realize that a bullet shot into the air comes down somewhere? Treefrog Apr 2021 #90

And if she had stabbed the other girl anyway? Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #92

Falling bullet injuries whistler162 Apr 2021 #96

He was too far away for a taser hack89 Apr 2021 #39

If he had drawn his taser, rather than the gun, Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #73

The point is that tasers are not very effective for life and death situations hack89 Apr 2021 #75

I still think it should have been used in this circumstance. Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #76

He was told that someone was assaulting people with a knife. hack89 Apr 2021 #82

Fifteen minutes later? Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #103

Except that girl was a fraction of a second away from stabbing someone hack89 Apr 2021 #105

My point is that had he drawn his taser, rather than his gun Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #108

He probably put more emphasis on saving the girl in pink's life hack89 Apr 2021 #131

Using a gun threatens the lives of both girls. Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #139

Using a taser endangered the girl in pink's life nt hack89 Apr 2021 #140

Far less than the gun. n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #146

I doubt he could have hit the girl with a taser at that distance...he save the girl in pink's life. Demsrule86 Apr 2021 #182

Hindsight is 20/20, of course. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #95

Try talking her? Or if you must use a gun, how about firing a shot in the air Thrill Apr 2021 #100

You can't shoot a gun in the air...bullet comes down somewhere... Demsrule86 Apr 2021 #183

fine if you have all the time in the world to think about it Skittles Apr 2021 #172

How do they do it in the UK? CrackityJones75 Apr 2021 #7

Police in the UK shoot people who are trying to stab cops and others greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #11

but not all cops carry guns. there's usually an assessment and decision to bring guns to a scene unblock Apr 2021 #18

Yes, all that is true greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #24

I'm sure you could find one in this vast list of UK police shootings. rgbecker Apr 2021 #23

Didn't need to look greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #26

Because Terrorists??!!? rgbecker Apr 2021 #63

Probably not a lot, but I'm not sure how we categorize somebody stabbing people greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #64

Check the stas on how many people are shot by police. CrackityJones75 Apr 2021 #133

Yes, everybody knows that greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #135

Here's how two UK police take down a man wielding a knife, and in the US: sop Apr 2021 #67

He was attacking them. marie999 Apr 2021 #78

Yes, quite a difference in the two situations. wnylib Apr 2021 #143

Yes. Straw Man Apr 2021 #153

Thank you CrackityJones75 Apr 2021 #136

You think cops in other countries don't intervene malaise Apr 2021 #10

What are the ways? phylny Apr 2021 #21

Never thought I'd read something like this here. There are no justified shootings, ever. marble falls Apr 2021 #12

So, no police shootings are justified?? Really? Nt USALiberal Apr 2021 #28

'bye. marble falls Apr 2021 #36

Yep, I assumed! Lol! Nt USALiberal Apr 2021 #44

If my life is being threatened by another individual, I can't imagine thinking that phylny Apr 2021 #58

Charles Whitman wasn't a justfied shooting BradAllison Apr 2021 #33

This isn't going to win any arguments. Ace Rothstein Apr 2021 #45

bye. marble falls Apr 2021 #157

LOL Ace Rothstein Apr 2021 #160

UK police shot the attackers in the 2017 London Bridge stabbing attacks. TwilightZone Apr 2021 #60

bye. marble falls Apr 2021 #158

Well that sucks. People should stop trying to murder other people then. BusterMove Apr 2021 #84

Was the stabbing justified then? ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #106

"There are no justified shootings, ever." EX500rider Apr 2021 #190

bye. marble falls Apr 2021 #194

Right what else could you say? EX500rider Apr 2021 #200

By this logic, the Capital Police should have gunned down 30 or 40 people on Jan 6, 2021. rgbecker Apr 2021 #13

RSO rso Apr 2021 #20

The knife would have been in the other girl before any other weapon was brought out. ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #107

Honestly they probably should have. NT cinematicdiversions Apr 2021 #156

sigh... Voltaire2 Apr 2021 #15

Ironic, considering that character probably would have no problem with deadly force... ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #109

A Taser Would Have Worked colsohlibgal Apr 2021 #16

I wonder if officers should switch sides - taser on their dominant-hand side, phylny Apr 2021 #22

And inaccurate shooting! Nt USALiberal Apr 2021 #25

True. phylny Apr 2021 #61

Do you understand how a taser works? hack89 Apr 2021 #47

Indeed, Dead is permanent. But... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #99

Come on now ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #111

first post I clicked on today... stillcool Apr 2021 #27

It's disgusting StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #42

You're the one who thinks the other girl should have been stabbed. ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #113

I want everyone to have the same quality of justice Marthe48 Apr 2021 #34

The cop saved a life ripcord Apr 2021 #40

And took one Marthe48 Apr 2021 #48

He was 10 feet away ripcord Apr 2021 #50

Not trying to stab a bystander is a good way to not get shot AZSkiffyGeek Apr 2021 #72

the cop may have prevented a knife wound, but knife wounds usually aren't lethal. unblock Apr 2021 #55

And if a stab to the neck turned out to be fatal then what? ripcord Apr 2021 #62

fine, shoot first and cover up questions later. great protocol. unblock Apr 2021 #69

She had already stabbed another girl ripcord Apr 2021 #70

I had not heard that previously in any coverage Bayard Apr 2021 #77

This is the correct answer superpatriotman Apr 2021 #88

sorry i'm just not keen on anyone delivering death based on two seconds of information. unblock Apr 2021 #97

This isn't a training problem StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #101

Agreed, that's certainly a big part of it unblock Apr 2021 #116

Exactly StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #119

I was trying to get at that Marthe48 Apr 2021 #127

Source? What source says that she had already stabbed another person? wnylib Apr 2021 #168

You just want to wait and find out, huh? ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #114

"but i've seen that fewer than 4% of knife wounds are lethal." EX500rider Apr 2021 #191

Plenty of links on the googles, here's one; see the chart unblock Apr 2021 #192

The amount of magical thinking required TheProle Apr 2021 #94

Looks closer to an 8" kitchen knife to me greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #123

if this case is the best justification for shooting, then yeah, no shooting is justified. unblock Apr 2021 #41

He saw her in the act of stabbing someone hack89 Apr 2021 #51

four shots at close range by someone trained to aim well and at center mass? unblock Apr 2021 #66

If the person is armed, you shoot until they are down. marie999 Apr 2021 #170

Yeah I know the party line unblock Apr 2021 #171

You don't give a warning shot to someone who is about to kill someone. marie999 Apr 2021 #173

Probably about to stab someone. "Kill" is greatly overstating it unblock Apr 2021 #185

So the officer is supposed to take the chance that the victim will only be wounded? marie999 Apr 2021 #193

She was murdering someone else... ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #115

Not likely. unblock Apr 2021 #118

LOL "not likely". Glad you are willing to take that risk... ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #125

just going with the statistics. unblock Apr 2021 #145

My comment stands, glad you are willing to take such chances. ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #164

And this is why we don't create The Narrative before knowing facts Sympthsical Apr 2021 #49

+100. nt MarineCombatEngineer Apr 2021 #54

+1 to a thoughtful and well written post n/t Devil Child Apr 2021 #154

1/2 second later and the girl in the pink was going to be stabbed in the chest/stomach Johnny2X2X Apr 2021 #53

Won't see crump parade on this one Watchfoxheadexplodes Apr 2021 #65

This thread is Disaffected Apr 2021 #71

I sometimes wonder what Steven Seagal movie some people are living in n/t Sympthsical Apr 2021 #93

If someone is committing attempted murder, weapon in hand-- Wingus Dingus Apr 2021 #74

Justified and necessary do not mean the same thing. RegularJam Apr 2021 #79

Of course it's justified. PTWB Apr 2021 #80

Best post yet. MarineCombatEngineer Apr 2021 #81

+1 In It to Win It Apr 2021 #134

+1 wnylib Apr 2021 #167

That's ridiculous. Jirel Apr 2021 #83

"3) Never heard of proportional use of force? Emptying a full clip into the chest of a little teen? ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #126

They all carry tasers Bettie Apr 2021 #85

Question for you.... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #104

So, what? She's superhuman? Bettie Apr 2021 #112

It does happen. Absolutely, and more than you would think. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #117

Tasers work sometimes and don't work sometimes... ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #128

If she was white? Xoan Apr 2021 #86

The cop should have yelled "drop the knife" first, then shoot. IamHappy Apr 2021 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Apr 2021 #122

Nonsense ibegurpard Apr 2021 #110

I made no "blanket statement" ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Apr 2021 #121

I appears justified to me. I wasn't there, though. nt LexVegas Apr 2021 #129

4 shots to the chest though? IcyPeas Apr 2021 #163

It isn't easy to hit a limb ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #165

Have people really never shot a gun? ARandomPerson Apr 2021 #169

I have never shot a gun. IcyPeas Apr 2021 #181

You should then forgive people if they don't find your opinion about how to operate greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #195

You are aware that a shot to the leg or arm can be fatal also. MarineCombatEngineer Apr 2021 #198

Agree. beaglelover Apr 2021 #176

It is not possible for me to more strongly disagree with you than I do. Stinky The Clown Apr 2021 #178

Thank you for this StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #179

No time for hand to hand. Or even hand to hand with knife DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #189

I don't see how he could have closed that distance in time to prevent the stabbing greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #196

I don't think there are enough John Wicks available to staff your fantasy police departments n/t Devil Child Apr 2021 #197

I agree. BannonsLiver Apr 2021 #199