General Discussion

Straw Man

(6,937 posts)

155. Doubt away.

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 02:01 PM

Apr 2021

The idea that she would have no reaction to shots fired is pretty silly and uncompelling, I have to say.

Who said "no reaction"? She might have flinched from the noise. The idea that a loud noise would have caused her to break off the attack is what is "silly and uncompelling."

Warning shots have no place in police training, and for good reason: they fail a basic risk/reward analysis.

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If the Ohio shooting of the teenage girl is not justified, then no shooting is justified... [View all] ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 OP

Just because it can be justified legally doesn't mean it was just and that there isn't a better way. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #1

Fine. Just what is that better way? TreasonousBastard Apr 2021 #2

Abolish the police and invest the bloated budgets into systems that actually help people. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #3

You have to demilitarize the populace first. Kaleva Apr 2021 #31

That's an excellent way to ensure it never happens, lol. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #37

There isn't enough support to do that though. Kaleva Apr 2021 #56

I mean, that sounds great and all.... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #89

Meeting people's needs goes a long way toward decreasing crime. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #98

Of course it does....but... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #102

ok I'll put you down for a no WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #124

A no for what? Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #137

For abolition, as you said. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #144

ACTIVE SHOOTER DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #161

Cops generally don't help them now, so we fund the things that do help people. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #175

Who helps them now? DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #177

What should have been done in this particular case? phylny Apr 2021 #4

Taser? AndyS Apr 2021 #5

Maybe so. phylny Apr 2021 #9

I think a Taser was a good option... FarPoint Apr 2021 #14

A Taser may or may not be effective. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #91

If we're talking about hypotheticals about what should have been done, we should have abolished WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #6

I don't disagree. phylny Apr 2021 #8

. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #17

Okay, fair enough. phylny Apr 2021 #19

The only solution to police violence is to not have police at all. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #29

The only solution to police violence is to not have violence at all DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #180

We actually know a lot of the reasons why people become violent, and many of them are preventable. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #184

many of them are preventable. DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #186

Your question isn't clear. What kind of violence, and is the call coming to me, or do I see it? WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #187

Active Shooter, you are getting the call and you are the leader. nt DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #188

They could have not shot Ma'Khia. BradAllison Apr 2021 #46

it is not one or the other DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #162

What about a warning shot? ChicagoRonin Apr 2021 #30

I agree that a warning shot would have been useful here greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #32

"Warning shots" do absolutely nothing. Straw Man Apr 2021 #147

Who said anything about shooting in the air? greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #149

Same thing. Straw Man Apr 2021 #151

Yeah, I doubt it greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #152

Doubt away. Straw Man Apr 2021 #155

The girl that was killed was already pumped with adrenaline. yagotme Apr 2021 #174

Warning shots go against several rules of firearm safety. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #35

So does firing four times at the two women fighting by a car. sop Apr 2021 #57

Indeed. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #59

That was a decent sized knife... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #120

One might argue Ma'Khia Bryant was "standing her ground" and the cop shot her while she was sop Apr 2021 #132

One could argue that, I guess, but the video does not support that argument. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #138

Yeah, it was an ugly, chaotic, no win situation. Family dispute police calls usually are. That's sop Apr 2021 #141

Yup. Good observation. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #142

He didn't fire "at the two women." Straw Man Apr 2021 #148

Agree on this greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #150

Look at the body cam video again. sop Apr 2021 #159

I have. Straw Man Apr 2021 #166

Bullets do not evaporate after a certain time sarisataka Apr 2021 #38

Can you shoot into the ground? ChicagoRonin Apr 2021 #43

On a hard surface there is risk sarisataka Apr 2021 #68

The shots were fired as the knife-swinging arm was in motion Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #52

You realize that a bullet shot into the air comes down somewhere? Treefrog Apr 2021 #90

And if she had stabbed the other girl anyway? Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #92

Falling bullet injuries whistler162 Apr 2021 #96

He was too far away for a taser hack89 Apr 2021 #39

If he had drawn his taser, rather than the gun, Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #73

The point is that tasers are not very effective for life and death situations hack89 Apr 2021 #75

I still think it should have been used in this circumstance. Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #76

He was told that someone was assaulting people with a knife. hack89 Apr 2021 #82

Fifteen minutes later? Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #103

Except that girl was a fraction of a second away from stabbing someone hack89 Apr 2021 #105

My point is that had he drawn his taser, rather than his gun Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #108

He probably put more emphasis on saving the girl in pink's life hack89 Apr 2021 #131

Using a gun threatens the lives of both girls. Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #139

Using a taser endangered the girl in pink's life nt hack89 Apr 2021 #140

Far less than the gun. n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2021 #146

I doubt he could have hit the girl with a taser at that distance...he save the girl in pink's life. Demsrule86 Apr 2021 #182

Hindsight is 20/20, of course. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #95

Try talking her? Or if you must use a gun, how about firing a shot in the air Thrill Apr 2021 #100

You can't shoot a gun in the air...bullet comes down somewhere... Demsrule86 Apr 2021 #183

fine if you have all the time in the world to think about it Skittles Apr 2021 #172

How do they do it in the UK? CrackityJones75 Apr 2021 #7

Police in the UK shoot people who are trying to stab cops and others greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #11

but not all cops carry guns. there's usually an assessment and decision to bring guns to a scene unblock Apr 2021 #18

Yes, all that is true greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #24

I'm sure you could find one in this vast list of UK police shootings. rgbecker Apr 2021 #23

Didn't need to look greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #26

Because Terrorists??!!? rgbecker Apr 2021 #63

Probably not a lot, but I'm not sure how we categorize somebody stabbing people greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #64

Check the stas on how many people are shot by police. CrackityJones75 Apr 2021 #133

Yes, everybody knows that greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #135

Here's how two UK police take down a man wielding a knife, and in the US: sop Apr 2021 #67

He was attacking them. marie999 Apr 2021 #78

Yes, quite a difference in the two situations. wnylib Apr 2021 #143

Yes. Straw Man Apr 2021 #153

Thank you CrackityJones75 Apr 2021 #136

You think cops in other countries don't intervene malaise Apr 2021 #10

What are the ways? phylny Apr 2021 #21

Never thought I'd read something like this here. There are no justified shootings, ever. marble falls Apr 2021 #12

So, no police shootings are justified?? Really? Nt USALiberal Apr 2021 #28

'bye. marble falls Apr 2021 #36

Yep, I assumed! Lol! Nt USALiberal Apr 2021 #44

If my life is being threatened by another individual, I can't imagine thinking that phylny Apr 2021 #58

Charles Whitman wasn't a justfied shooting BradAllison Apr 2021 #33

This isn't going to win any arguments. Ace Rothstein Apr 2021 #45

bye. marble falls Apr 2021 #157

LOL Ace Rothstein Apr 2021 #160

UK police shot the attackers in the 2017 London Bridge stabbing attacks. TwilightZone Apr 2021 #60

bye. marble falls Apr 2021 #158

Well that sucks. People should stop trying to murder other people then. BusterMove Apr 2021 #84

Was the stabbing justified then? ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #106

"There are no justified shootings, ever." EX500rider Apr 2021 #190

bye. marble falls Apr 2021 #194

Right what else could you say? EX500rider Apr 2021 #200

By this logic, the Capital Police should have gunned down 30 or 40 people on Jan 6, 2021. rgbecker Apr 2021 #13

RSO rso Apr 2021 #20

The knife would have been in the other girl before any other weapon was brought out. ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #107

Honestly they probably should have. NT cinematicdiversions Apr 2021 #156

sigh... Voltaire2 Apr 2021 #15

Ironic, considering that character probably would have no problem with deadly force... ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #109

A Taser Would Have Worked colsohlibgal Apr 2021 #16

I wonder if officers should switch sides - taser on their dominant-hand side, phylny Apr 2021 #22

And inaccurate shooting! Nt USALiberal Apr 2021 #25

True. phylny Apr 2021 #61

Do you understand how a taser works? hack89 Apr 2021 #47

Indeed, Dead is permanent. But... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #99

Come on now ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #111

first post I clicked on today... stillcool Apr 2021 #27

It's disgusting StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #42

You're the one who thinks the other girl should have been stabbed. ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #113

I want everyone to have the same quality of justice Marthe48 Apr 2021 #34

The cop saved a life ripcord Apr 2021 #40

And took one Marthe48 Apr 2021 #48

He was 10 feet away ripcord Apr 2021 #50

Not trying to stab a bystander is a good way to not get shot AZSkiffyGeek Apr 2021 #72

the cop may have prevented a knife wound, but knife wounds usually aren't lethal. unblock Apr 2021 #55

And if a stab to the neck turned out to be fatal then what? ripcord Apr 2021 #62

fine, shoot first and cover up questions later. great protocol. unblock Apr 2021 #69

She had already stabbed another girl ripcord Apr 2021 #70

I had not heard that previously in any coverage Bayard Apr 2021 #77

This is the correct answer superpatriotman Apr 2021 #88

sorry i'm just not keen on anyone delivering death based on two seconds of information. unblock Apr 2021 #97

This isn't a training problem StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #101

Agreed, that's certainly a big part of it unblock Apr 2021 #116

Exactly StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #119

I was trying to get at that Marthe48 Apr 2021 #127

Source? What source says that she had already stabbed another person? wnylib Apr 2021 #168

You just want to wait and find out, huh? ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #114

"but i've seen that fewer than 4% of knife wounds are lethal." EX500rider Apr 2021 #191

Plenty of links on the googles, here's one; see the chart unblock Apr 2021 #192

The amount of magical thinking required TheProle Apr 2021 #94

Looks closer to an 8" kitchen knife to me greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #123

if this case is the best justification for shooting, then yeah, no shooting is justified. unblock Apr 2021 #41

He saw her in the act of stabbing someone hack89 Apr 2021 #51

four shots at close range by someone trained to aim well and at center mass? unblock Apr 2021 #66

If the person is armed, you shoot until they are down. marie999 Apr 2021 #170

Yeah I know the party line unblock Apr 2021 #171

You don't give a warning shot to someone who is about to kill someone. marie999 Apr 2021 #173

Probably about to stab someone. "Kill" is greatly overstating it unblock Apr 2021 #185

So the officer is supposed to take the chance that the victim will only be wounded? marie999 Apr 2021 #193

She was murdering someone else... ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #115

Not likely. unblock Apr 2021 #118

LOL "not likely". Glad you are willing to take that risk... ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #125

just going with the statistics. unblock Apr 2021 #145

My comment stands, glad you are willing to take such chances. ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #164

And this is why we don't create The Narrative before knowing facts Sympthsical Apr 2021 #49

+100. nt MarineCombatEngineer Apr 2021 #54

+1 to a thoughtful and well written post n/t Devil Child Apr 2021 #154

1/2 second later and the girl in the pink was going to be stabbed in the chest/stomach Johnny2X2X Apr 2021 #53

Won't see crump parade on this one Watchfoxheadexplodes Apr 2021 #65

This thread is Disaffected Apr 2021 #71

I sometimes wonder what Steven Seagal movie some people are living in n/t Sympthsical Apr 2021 #93

If someone is committing attempted murder, weapon in hand-- Wingus Dingus Apr 2021 #74

Justified and necessary do not mean the same thing. RegularJam Apr 2021 #79

Of course it's justified. PTWB Apr 2021 #80

Best post yet. MarineCombatEngineer Apr 2021 #81

+1 In It to Win It Apr 2021 #134

+1 wnylib Apr 2021 #167

That's ridiculous. Jirel Apr 2021 #83

"3) Never heard of proportional use of force? Emptying a full clip into the chest of a little teen? ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #126

They all carry tasers Bettie Apr 2021 #85

Question for you.... Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #104

So, what? She's superhuman? Bettie Apr 2021 #112

It does happen. Absolutely, and more than you would think. Happy Hoosier Apr 2021 #117

Tasers work sometimes and don't work sometimes... ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #128

If she was white? Xoan Apr 2021 #86

The cop should have yelled "drop the knife" first, then shoot. IamHappy Apr 2021 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Apr 2021 #122

Nonsense ibegurpard Apr 2021 #110

I made no "blanket statement" ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Apr 2021 #121

I appears justified to me. I wasn't there, though. nt LexVegas Apr 2021 #129

4 shots to the chest though? IcyPeas Apr 2021 #163

It isn't easy to hit a limb ExciteBike66 Apr 2021 #165

Have people really never shot a gun? ARandomPerson Apr 2021 #169

I have never shot a gun. IcyPeas Apr 2021 #181

You should then forgive people if they don't find your opinion about how to operate greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #195

You are aware that a shot to the leg or arm can be fatal also. MarineCombatEngineer Apr 2021 #198

Agree. beaglelover Apr 2021 #176

It is not possible for me to more strongly disagree with you than I do. Stinky The Clown Apr 2021 #178

Thank you for this StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #179

No time for hand to hand. Or even hand to hand with knife DontBelieveEastisEas Apr 2021 #189

I don't see how he could have closed that distance in time to prevent the stabbing greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #196

I don't think there are enough John Wicks available to staff your fantasy police departments n/t Devil Child Apr 2021 #197

I agree. BannonsLiver Apr 2021 #199